Semi-recessed vessel sink - with overflow? Milforde Semi-Recessed Porcelain Sink

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by blecrone, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. blecrone

    blecrone New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    ohio
    Recently purchased this vessel type sink: http://www.signaturehardware.com/product14433
    It is described as having an overflow hole, which it appears to have. The overflow hole leads to a "channel" within the wall of the sink which leads down to the drain hole in the bottom of the sink. However, on the very bottom of the sink there are two dime-sized hole (1 on either side of the drain hole) which allow any water entering the overflow hole to exit the overflow channel before reaching the drain. Am I supposed to plug these two holes with something and if so what? If I don't plug them, the overflow does not function as such. Or is the whole system only supposed to function as a venting system? Thanks in advance for any help.
  2. blecrone

    blecrone New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    ohio
    Thanks. I think I'm not being clear enough. I understand how an overflow is supposed to work. However, in this case any water that enters the overflow won't ever reach the pop-up drain because there are two holes in the bottom of the sink where the water will exit before reaching the pop-up drain. I am supposed to plug these holes in order to have a functioning overflow, or is the overflow hole really just a vent hole only?
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If the lower part of the sink doesn't work with a pop-up, and they just daylight, (something I haven't seen yet) then they may in fact be vents.
    Sounds like a risky solution to the poor vessel draining issues.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Are you sure the two holes are not just "vents" from the casting process. If they are in fact the outlet of the overflow opening, take the sink back and get one that is not defective. There is no way that any reputable manufacturer would create a sink where the overflow water drains out of those two holes into the sink cabinet, UNLESS, they also make some "proprietary" fitting that covers those two openings and directs the water into the central drain opening, in which case it should have come with the sink. One disturbing item is that NEITHER of the drains they show with the sink seems to have overflow openings, and in fact are specified as "ideal" for homemade sinks which would not have overflow passages.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  5. blecrone

    blecrone New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    ohio
    This was in fact my first thought when I unpackaged the sink, and I didn't really look at them that closely. It seems odd that they just happen to match up with the overflow channel, though.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; It seems odd that they just happen to match up with the overflow channel, though

    Well, they may have needed them to 'shape" the overflow passages, then sealed them afterwards. Pour water through the overflows and see where it comes out, or blow into one of the holes and check where it goes.
  7. blecrone

    blecrone New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    ohio
    Yeah did that - it comes right out those two holes.

    The drain assembly I have is a pop-up without overflow holes. I could swap this out for one with overflow holes, and try to plug the two holes in the bottom of the sink, but I think I won't bother. Trying to find the right way to get a good seal could be tricky. I don't want to fuss with trying to get a new sink either. Too much hassle. I'll just live with it. Worst that could happen, I'll be toweling some water off the floor. It's all tile anyway.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; I don't want to fuss with trying to get a new sink either. Too much hassle. I'll just live with it.

    You are a Home Depot "perfect customer". That attitude is what they hope everyone would have when they sell them "defective" merchandise. Rather than discard it during inspection, they sell it and hope the customer will "live with it". That way they have made a profit on it. IF the customer doesn't want to live with it, then they throw it away, but haven't lost anything because they would have had to do it anyway. The customer is the one who loses because he has to make the extra trips and maybe "uninstall" the item then reinstall the new one.
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    And this is what I hear so many times. "I might get a good one, and if it isn't, I can live with it."
    If a plumbing contractor were to install something deemed defective, it would be up to use to replace it, labor included. That's why we're very gun shy of product that may waste our time and money. We expect a certain quality in our work to prevent those "surprises".
  10. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    The spec you posted says " with overflow" but I don't know the brand to look up install instructions. Do you have them??
  11. blecrone

    blecrone New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    ohio
    Sorry to strike a cord there hj. I can appreciate ones right to ramble a bit, but for the record my attitude is not what you describe. I specifically did not purchase any of the items for this bathroom project at Home Depot because their products are generally lower quality.
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    You did not purchase it at HD, and they probably would not have had THAT sink if you tried, but the principle is the same. ANY sink that was designed so that overflow water drained into the cabinet iS DEFECTIVE. AND, if the drain opening DOES have provision for the overflows to connect to it, then water WILL also come out of them into the cabinet when you use the faucet. The openings may have been for overflow cores which should have been sealed. IF you keep it without checking with the manufacturer to see WHY it is that way then you have given them the profit for a fixture that otherwise would have been useless and thrown away.
  13. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    I found the mfg website....no technical info provided.....not a good sign
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    There would not be "technical information" about this situation any way. What would it say? Something like, "After the sink is installed always keep a pan under the sink to catch any "overflow water", or if the sink is installed on top of a countertop, be sure to seal around the drain hole and around the sink so any water exiting the overflow opening is trapped under the sink"? This "situation" needs a phone call to the company's customer service department.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,999
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I can't imagine that the holes are from the overflow though. I think water needs to be poured down the overflow to test that theory.
    Like mentioned above, it may be casting holes to let the heated air out while it's in the kiln.
  16. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    By tech. info, I was looking for dimension specs, install instructions....NOTHING there
  17. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,615
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I already told him to do that. He said he did and the water came out of those two holes, but that he would just mop up any water that "spilled" out of them from overflowing.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2012
  18. wraujr

    wraujr Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    MD
    Is it possible that the holes are close enough to the drain opening that when pop-up assembly is installed, the nut, washer, and rubber gasket will cover/seal the "dime" size openings..... and then overflow will flow into holes in side of popup assy. Your use of "dime size" sounds pretty big...

    How about a picture??
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
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