Sediment Filter Help

[Remington351]

Hello Everyone,
I've got a question about sediment filter on my well water system.

Current system is as follows:
200ft well
Gould 7gpm pump 3yrs old
Pressure tank with 30-50 switch
4.5x10 sediment filter cartridge pleated 5 micron
1.5cuft Ph neutralizer with Fleck 2510 head
1.5cuft softener fleck 2510

Water testing:
Ph 5.4
Hardness 210 mg/l
TDS 249 mg/l
Nitrate 9.2

The water has what the local testing company called "Colloidal Clay/Silt". It is very fine, some of which are less then 5 microns. I do get about a pinch of sand/gravel in the filter housing every 2-3 months.

I want to improve the pressure flow through the entire system which is currently bleeding about 8 to 15psi as the 5 micron filter becomes loaded. This affects showering performance on the second floor and I'm concerned about low pressure affecting the back-washing of the tanks.

My concern is if I remove increase the pore size above 5 microns, the very fine sediment will flow through the neutralizer into the softener. Could this fine sediment create a condition where it coats the resin beads and either fouls or diminishes the effectiveness of the softener resin? If yes, what can be done to remove such small particulates?

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

You could go from the single 4.5 by 10 to two 4.5 by 20 filter housings in series. I do that. I use a Pentek DGD-5005-20 followed by a Pentek WP1BB20P. Since I have those following a backwashing filter, they have very little to do. At least I over-did the filtering rather than under-did. After over 12 months, they looked like they could have gone a few more years.

Maybe you would want to go courser. https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?46812-Has-anyone-used-a-LAKOS-Twist-II-Clean-Filter The Lacos twist to clean has had good comments from those working with courser sediments.

Now if you wanted to deal with iron and/or sulfur also, maybe instead add an appropriate backwashing filter before your current filter. That would take out the particles, and treat the water at the same time. It would leave much less for your existing filter to do, an you could go to a finer filter for that unit. I don't know what that neutralizer is. I guess it does not stop your clay particles.

You should not use cellulose filter elements on an unchlorinated well. Instead use polypropylene.

 

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[Remington351]

Thanks Reach4. I've been thinking about improving my upstream filtering with additional/larger units and also thinking about improving my pressure tank. I'm most curious about the affect, if any, that the 5 micron and below particulates might have on the softener resin.

 

[Gary Slusser]

IMO you should remove the cartridge filter and allow the empty housing to collect the bigger stuff and the AN filter to remove the rest. The AN filter will collect and backwash the invisible stuff out of it. Invisible stuff is that less than 50-45 microns in size.

 

[LLigetfa]

You could go from the single 4.5 by 10 to two 4.5 by 20 filter housings in series...

Rather than go in series, putting them in parallel would double the GPM.

I don't use element filters as I have an iron filter before my softener. Now and then I get some clay and when my iron filter backwashes, it looks like coffee with cream.

 

[Remington351]

Thanks. I read that the AN unit essentially acts as a 20 micron filter. My foreign material is down around 5 microns or less. Invisible, yes, but it will still accumulate on the 5 micron big blue and affect water pressure every 45-60 days. I assume the majority of this material will pass through the AN filter due to its relative micron size. If I allow this material to access to the softener resin I'm worried the resin will no longer be able to perform it's ion exchange duties due to a very fine coating (particles smaller than 5 microns) of sediment. Is this possible or am I over-thinking things?

 

[Reach4]

Thanks. I read that the AN unit essentially acts as a 20 micron filter. My foreign material is down around 5 microns or less. Invisible, yes, but it will still accumulate on the 5 micron big blue and affect water pressure every 45-60 days.

Based on this, it would seem to be good to add a 20 inch BB after the Acid Neutralizing backwashing filter. Then try the existing 10-inch housing empty as GaryS suggests. I don't know how the fine particles affect the softener. They can't be good for the water heater if they make it that far.

 

[Gary Slusser]

The naked eye can not see particles smaller than 45 microns. The AN filter mineral will collect the invisible sediment and then it will be back washed out. Same for softener resins, although it is best to keep it out but... a replaceable cartridge that is not replaced in a timely manner (based on pressure drop across it of 15 psi, not how it looks) will cause a reduction in backwash flow of those things past it and that harms AN filter mineral and resins. The best solution, and the least expensive, is to not add something like a replaceable cartridge filter that is going to cause what your are afraid of happening without them, based on incorrect assumptions.

 

[Reach4]

The naked eye can not see particles smaller than 45 microns. The AN filter mineral will collect the invisible sediment and then it will be back washed out. Same for softener resins, although it is best to keep it out but... a replaceable cartridge that is not replaced in a timely manner (based on pressure drop across it of 15 psi, not how it looks) will cause a reduction in backwash flow of those things past it and that harms AN filter mineral and resins. The best solution, and the least expensive, is to not add something like a replaceable cartridge filter that is going to cause what your are afraid of happening without them, based on incorrect assumptions.

I think putting that housing after the AN filter would a good idea because it costs maybe $100 to $150 for parts plus the labor. I would be pleased to find that I wasted my money to find that the 5 or 1 micron filter does not load up in a year. I am also pleased if the money I spend on insurance turns out to have been a waste.

Putting in the 3 20x4.5 BB filter housings following my backwashing filter was at least partly a waste of money, as it turns out. A single cartridge would have been sufficient. Since I got those piped at the same time by the same plumber as the big filter, it was not a huge increase in cost. Finding that my 1 micron filter element did not clog or even discolor in a year was worth it to me.

In the case of Remington351, adding a filter is not part of other plumbing work being done. So that would argue to not add a filter housing unless removing the existing filter element leaves some symptoms. So I think that is reasonable. I also think would be reasonable to add a potentially unneeded filter, since that filter can serve as a detection device.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Well I go on logic and 20+ years of experience but if I was the type of guy that liked upselling my customers with things that didn't help them, I'd agree with you, but I'm not and I have never been that type guy. That has earned me many customers and much more income than had I been that type guy.

BTW, you've not mentioned as part of the expense, the cost of replacing useless cartridges. And in this case of an AN filter, the filter probably failing prematurely because of prefiltering for invisible sediment. The OP has a reduced flow and serious pressure loss just after his prefilter, he is harming his AN filter mineral and probably not raising his 5.4 was it pH problem to 7.0 as it should. He needs to remove the cause of the pressure/flow loss and he has identified it as the prefilter cartridge loading up.

 

[Reach4]

Do you see value in a post filter?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Do you see value in a post filter


Get rid of the cartridge filter. Go with an AN filter and a post filter is a waste of money.

 

[Reach4]

I think that if I have a backwashing filter followed by a post filter, and I can see some particles or darkening on a white element after a year, it was not a waste of money. Having 3 20-inch cartridge housings was overkill, but having a filter there is not a waste IMO. Having a 50..5 followed by a 1 micron... maybe a waste. Maybe just the wound 1 micron cartridge would have been sufficient. That costs less than $40, even amortizing in a possible O-ring change every other time. Under $25 for the 5...20. I am pleased that the filters I put in turned out to be overkill. Knowing what I know now, maybe I would have put in a single 10-inch or 20-inch housing. Maybe I will push the replacement time further. If I used an RO for drinking, then the value of post-filter would be different.

In the picture is a new wrapped 50..5 cartridge, the 50..5 that was in line for 12.5 months, and the wound 1 micron that was in service that same 12.5 months. I also have pictures of the bit of rust sediment that settled in the bottom.
(Photo shrunk and compressed to 128,512 bytes with Irfanview)

 

[Remington351]

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, I truly appreciate it. It looks like I'll be doing a replumbing of my equipment to have the AN tank first inline after the pressure tank. Reach4 has shown that some small micron particulates will pass through the AN filter. So the question that remains is do we know the affect of ultra fine sediment (sub 5 micron) on the softener resin? If there is potential to foul the resin over time and/or degrade the ion exchange ability then maybe a post AN filter cartridge may be warrented.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The softener will backwash the sediment

 

[Gary Slusser]

Reach4.... your "whole house" cartridge filters were never meant to be used on a POE (point of entry) basis, they were designed to be used for POU (point of use) applications such as an ice maker, commercial coffee makers etc. etc.. You can use them pre or post your POE equipment, I suggest not to and time will tell if the pre type causes your softener problems in a couple years or not. The OP sees his is killing his enjoyment in his shower and now I think he sees it probably is killing his AN filter. If he doesn't cure the cause, next will be his softener dying a slow death and causing him more discomfort in his shower before it totally dies.

So now I must ask you what are you or yours are afraid of that requires you/them to be so concerned with the itty bitty, teeny tiny bit of discoloration in a year+ old cartridge if you ingested the stuff?

 

[Reach4]

Note Gary's suggestion to "remove the cartridge filter and allow the empty housing to collect the bigger stuff and the AN filter to remove the rest. " That will save some effort vs re-plumbing.

Gary: My "whole house" cartridge filters are after my POE backwashing filter. POU would be good too --maybe better, but then I might need more. Yes, I am needlessly filtering the toilet and washing machine water too. I also view this as an audit of the POE filter, and it might stop some sediment if I happened to use some water during the backwashing bypass.