Securing a freestanding faucet

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by dirtmover, May 8, 2010.

  1. dirtmover

    dirtmover New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Ontario
    It's for a clawfoot tub I just bought. The faucet sits on 2 x 3/4" risers but how do I plumb and secure the risers at the floor? Here are the instructions http://www.costco.ca/images/content/misc/pdf/211933c_installation.pdf. The only relevant instruction they give is "Position floor pipe into water supply tube". How do I secure the "water supply tube" under the floor? Is their some sort of special flange that I need to get?
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  2. JOHN_P

    JOHN_P New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
  3. dirtmover

    dirtmover New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Ontario
    Yeah, this was my first thought but I'm not sure if they are strong enough to carry about 10lbs of faucet 3' above them.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,990
    Location:
    New England
    I'd do this:
    1. put in some blocking below the floor.
    2. screw some brass drop-ear el's to the blocking (you may need to do this first before mounting the blocking - measuring will be critical as you want the pipes both vertical and at the right offset). Make the holes in the subflooring as close fitting as you can - that would give you three points, the fitting, the floor, and the flange to provide 'sway' control to keep the thing vertical.
    3. insert the risers
    4. install the floor flanges.
    ... per the instruction sheets.

    The floor flanges, if designed well, combined with the attachment points below the floor should provide a fair amount of stiffness for the fixture. It would be better if there was some way to attach it to either the wall or the tub at the top, then it would be very solid. But, if the thing is designed well, that should be sufficient. Now, you won't be able to hang off the thing, but it should be reasonably strong.
  5. shacko

    shacko Master Plumber-Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Rosedale, Md
    The one I found on the net that looks like yours has 2 chrome brackets connected to the waste and overflow for the water pipe. The rough-in for the water should be two female adaptors secured below the floor that your upright pipes screw into, it may or may not pertain to you.
  6. dirtmover

    dirtmover New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Ontario
    Thanks jadnashua these were the lines I was thinking along. Prob'ly add some caulk at the floor where the pipe comes through for additional stiffness. One thing to note however is that the risers don't have a tapered thread and the el's will so I'm a bit concerned about lack of penetration.

    There is no overflow to attach to shacko. Well of course there is but it's integrated into the tub so no pipe. I'm going to be fairly close to the wall so if I can find a chromed curtain/wardrobe/shower rail hanger of appropriate dimensions I'll consider securing to the wall also.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,607
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The connections under the floor will NEVER support or stabilize the faucet and risers. In fact, if they are NOT stabilized with the mounting bracket which attaches to the tub's waste and overflow, any movement will BREAK the connection at the floor if it is TOO rigid.
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,990
    Location:
    New England
    Unless your assembly came with seals and fittings to make the connection underneath the floor, you'll have a hard time finding an el with straight threads and a gasket to make the seal. As opposed to the more common tapered threads where tape or dope will create a seal, in straight threads, it's more like a hose connection, and you need to compress it against a gasket (which can degrade and eventually leak). Caulk won't help make the lines any more stable. As HJ said, unless you can anchor that thing somewhere higher up, it won't be all that stable. If the floor brackets are to be any help, the pipe and the hole it goes through in the bracket must have essentially no slop, as the stability would only be from those two support points: the el and the bracket. The further apart they are, the better it will be at stability, but you are relying on the stiffness of the pipe to then keep it in position. Pulling on the hand-held, and even just turning the valves on may overwhelm it. You need something to stabilize the top end for maximum reliability. Is there a wall anywhere near that you could maybe find a finished bracket to run to?
  9. dirtmover

    dirtmover New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Ontario
    It'll be fairly close to the wall so brackets aren't out of the question. I've emailed the manufacturer to ask what sort of fittings they suggest for the risers and where I can get them.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,607
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The fittings will usually be ANY fitting with a standard 1/2" ips tapered thread,NOT one with a straight thread. HOW you secure the fitting in place will depend on which one you use and how it can be fastened to the building's structure. That part #36 was designed by an IDIOT. He KNEW the distance between the pipes because his company made the faucet so it does NOT have to be adjustable, AND most companies use a "T" fitting in the center which then fastens to the wall or the tub's overflow riser with another rod and attachment of some kind.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  11. dirtmover

    dirtmover New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Ontario
    I got a reply from the manufacturer and they suggest the following. The bottom end of the riser tubes have a parallel threaded section about 3" long. I should purchase 4 nuts to fit this size thread. On each pipe one nut should be placed on the threaded section as far up as it can go. The risers should be inserted through appropriately sized/spaced holes in the floor and the second nut secured on the pipe below the floor. This will sandwich the floor between the 2 nuts thus securing the risers. Connection to the water supply should be made by means of flex hoses.

    Does this sound reasonable to you guys? Are these flex hoses even designed for a completely enclosed, underfloor, installation?

    It sounds a bit of a pain this way because the final assembly needs to be done in coordination with the floor being finished i.e. I'll need to finish the floor where the faucet is to be installed with the adjacent floor open for access. Alternatively I'll need to open the ceiling below for access which isn't really an option.
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,607
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I said part #36 was designed by an "idiot", now it appears you have been talking to the same person because that installation description is almost as bad. The risers are at least 2' long. Do you, or he, realize how MUCH force you can exert on the fastenings at the floor if you even lean against the faucet? The faucet MUST be stabilized somewhere close to the top of the risers. If you check Kohler part # K-127 you will see a "cross connection" which stabilizes the risers. When used with the proper Kohler drain there is a 1/4" tapped hole for the cross connection to fasten to, but I just drill and tap the rear of the overflow fitting and screw it in. Other companies use a bracket with three holes. One slides over the overflow riser and clamps to it, and the risers are fastened into the other two openings.
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