Saved on the Well Drilling, Getting hammered on pump install,,,Need some input.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by ImWell, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:28 PM.

  1. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

    Joined:
    Sunday
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Hello All,

    I know there are some seasoned pros on this forum and would sincerely appreciate a response.

    I have mountain property and chose a location for my well. Must have picked a fairly good location, hitting 100+ gpm at 165 ft. with a static level of 52 ft. So the well drilling went great and hit a lot of water in a relatively shallow hole for the mountains here, at least from what I understand.

    I have read that in this area the average per ft. cost is around $23.00 per ft, including the well head and pump system and please don't get me wrong, I know its a hard job and don't mind paying for something that is fairly priced using good quality materials.

    When I got an estimate from the same company for installing the pump system, it was estimated at $ 2695.00 using a Jacuzzi 3/4 pump, plastic pipe and 40/14 gallon tank which they recommended to be buried and the system install did not include running pipe or wiring to the future build site about 85' away, instead it was for a temporary install, terminating just next to the well head, where the tank would be buried.

    I am told this also included dropping the pump to the best depth of 120 feet.

    So, my question is simply,,,isn't this a high estimate for the work to be done, time and materials and is burying a tank the best solution versus a well house or other structure?

    I am not too familiar with Jacuzzi pumps other than that they are all made in Japan now,,,I think Franklin might be a better choice....Or could you recommend a good pump manufacturer for supply to a 2 bedroom house, capable of running an upgraded higher end shower,,,,versus a 1 shower head setup....

    Just think this is a little high,,,,if the company were using a pump with higher end impellers, galvanized pipe, stainless connectors and on a deeper well,,,I wouldn't question the price...Kinda feeling that since I hit water relatively near the surface here, that the company is playing some profit catch-up on the backend.

    Thanks, I would appreciate your input,,,,and responses...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017 at 4:42 PM
  2. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

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    Occupation:
    Owner of a Water Well and Pump Repair Business
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    Franklin bought out Jacuzzi some years back. There is no more jacuzzi submersible pumps. Without knowing specifically what the job requires it's hard to say whether it's too much or not. Does it include trenching power from the power box to the well location? Is the trenching in sandy or clay soil or is it in rocky and hard soil? What size wire?

    I would suggest you get 3-4 bids on installing the pump before pulling the trigger. There are lots of companies out there that will install a pump in a well somebody else drilled. Just make sure you use somebody who will stand by their work and not some fly by night.
     
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  4. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

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    Location:
    Tennessee
    Thanks TWM for the prompt reply. No trenching at all,,,,,they are gonna terminate everything adjacent to the well itself. On the wiring, I would say 10/3 would be best for the 85 ft run to the power source and they wanted to just run the wire on top of the ground,,,,and then bury it later. Maybe they are including that,,,,in the estimate, I will check,,,,but running 10/3 on the ground is something I could do no problem,,,

    My suggestion was for me drop a temp power supply and to build an enclosure near where I plan to build and terminate everything there. But they said,,,a temporary install is what they recommended.

    On the Jacuzzi pump,,,,they are telling me that the pump they will install is a Jacuzzi brand,,which is now made in Japan,,,,I'm I being told a line in this respect?

    Yes, I have contacted some other companies and in the process of getting some bids,,,,,But to me,,,not running or trenching the wire and supply closer to where I will eventually build and using just standard lower end PVC and cheaper materials,,,the estimate is high and takes my cost per foot higher.

    What brand name of pump in your experience have you seen the best service out of and do they use plastic or metal parts...???

    And how do you feel about burying a pressure tank?

    Seems that would make it more costly to repair,,,and to me it also seems the company is wanting to leave the door open to be called back out to do another job in the final install, where I would get hit up again with another charge for completing the supply to the home and burying both in the same trench.....
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017 at 5:14 PM
  5. craigpump

    craigpump Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I've had the best luck with Grundfos pumps. $2700.00 for that job sounds cheap compared to where I am, but my friend in Murfreesboro tells me that's a fair price for the area. Burying a tank down there seems to be common practice although I'd rather have it and the controls in the basement. You can use #12 cable with no issues.
     
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  6. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tennessee
    Yeap Craig,,,,Used to manage 10 states up in your neck of the woods,,,,so 2700 is decent comparatively speaking.

    What puzzled me,,,,the office manager at the company,,,,told me around 1800.00,,,then the price keeps climbing from there.

    And the 2700 will climb again when the company does the final burying of the electrical and supply lines..

    Thanks for your input !
     
  7. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Joined:
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    Owner of a Water Well and Pump Repair Business
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    SE Texas-Coastal
    I'm not familiar with all the different brands of submersible pumps. Perhaps there is still a Jacuzzi being made today, I really don't know. In all honesty the brand of the pump is not super important as long as it's a tier 1 product and not a big box junker. Anything made by Franklin, Goulds, Grundfos, Flint and Walling should be fine and give many years of service. I've seen pumps with plastic impellers last 20+ years. Setting the pump on PVC pipe is typical and recommended by most on this board. I cannot comment on the buried pressure tank, we don't freeze here so that is something that I know nothing about. If you put it in a well house that causes another set of problems. Check with your neighbors and see how theirs is set-up. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. If you bury the tank you will keep it from freezing and not have to build a structure but will not be able to easily check the charge. If you build a structure you will have to heat it and the sweating from the pipes and bugs that infest them will rot it out.

    An A/C man told me one time that the brand of the A/C system didn't matter, it has more to do with the install. I think a lot of that is true on well systems too.
     
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  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    A Jacuzzi pump from Japan sounds fishy to me. I don't think they make Jacuzzi anymore, and Hitachi motors are the only thing I know of that comes out of Japan.

    You better check the flow and pressure requirement for that shower head. I don't think a 10 GPM, 3/4HP is going to cut it. Plus you are going to want constant pressure to that shower head, especially if you have a tankless water heater. You can use a Cycle Stop Valve for the constant pressure, then you only need a little 4.5 gallon size tank. The little tank can easily be put in the house, so you don't need to bury anything. I just replaced a buried tank in my yard with a PK125 constant pressure kit.
     
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  9. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tennessee
    Thanks Valveman,,,

    Is there a certain brand of pump that you feel is more dependable with a decent life?

    Yea, after research a little, I'm just not seeing Jacuzzi in the pump biz anymore and keep getting info from the installer that just doesn't add up.

    When I talked about wanting a little more powerful pump,,,,I was told the 3/4 is actually priced better than the 1/2 and still the price jumped bigtime,,,and like you,,,I am not so sure burying a tank in the ground is the best method.

    Appreciate it.
     
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
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  11. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

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    Location:
    Tennessee
    Hello Valveman,,,If I am dropping 120 ft of pipe in my new well, would you recommend 1.25 Galvanized or PVC?

    Got another estimate today,,and its like I thought,,,,this time $ 2800. but when I asked what kind of pipe, the guy told me they would be using Schedule 40 PVC,,,,and my thoughts are that the pricing that I am getting just don't add up to the quality parts that should be used, I mean most everyone and everything I have read specifies Schedule 80 minimally.

    At this point,,,and only due to my experience level, which is pretty extensive in plumbing, mechanical and electrical,,

    I am considering doing the job myself, but still just considering at this point.

    If this were a replacement,,,,and I had to pull the pump it would be a different story.

    But since gravity is on my side in only having to drop the pump and pipe 120' which could be done with a good winch.

    Whats your thoughts on the pipe PVC or Galvanized?
     
  12. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

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    Owner of a Water Well and Pump Repair Business
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    Galv. pipe is strong but can corrode. They really don't make it like they used to and it's expensive. If I pull a well and it's set on galv. if the pipe looks good I reuse it. If the pipe shows pitting and corrosion I replace it with sch 80 PVC. Normally the galv. pipe is bad about getting electrolysis pitting right at the pump, and then if that happens I change the last joint of pipe or move it up to another location. Sometimes galv. pipe is used in a well that is prone to getting tight like galv. casing so that when you need to you can pull a lot harder on it.

    Any company that wanted to hang a sub on sch 40 pvc don't walk, run away.
     
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  13. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
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    I agree with TW. Sch 40 is a no no. And 120' of sch 80 with metal coupling can be put in the well without a winch. Just screw it all together on the ground and don't bend it too much at the connections when you drop it in the well. Sch 80 will bend more than you think.
     
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  14. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

    Joined:
    Sunday
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Below the Frost Line installation and Use of a Pitless Adapter,,,,Question

    Even though my well install is in the Mountains,,,with extremely cold winters, both of the pump installers who estimated will not be installing below the frost line, instead they want to come out of the top of the casing and then use a black pipe connection out of the top then go back to PVC to the pressure tank and switch. (One installer stated that the black pipe) was less prone to freezing, which was a concern to me in exposing the system above the frost line. (((Your thoughts)))

    Is there any reason, not to go below the frost line in the casing and use a pitless adapter,,,other than the extra work?

    Again, I really appreciate your input and feedback guys,,,Like many of you, I am used to doing things myself and get educated about whatever the task is at hand.

    Kinda realizing that if I did the job myself, I could upgrade the quality of the parts and probably end up with a better constructed and longer lasting system for the same or a bit less price point.

    I am certainly not a cheapskate or know-it-all, but in this instance,,,,I keep getting too many red flags that sort of point to some price and profit motives by the installers, resulting in a higher than average job cost,,,,when compared to work that has to be done....

    Thanks Again,
     
  15. craigpump

    craigpump Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    1.25 sch 120 PVC is more than adequate, use either sch 120 PVC couplings or stainless couplings.

    If it's cold enough to freeze, use a pitless adapter. They are quick, easy, relatively inexpensive & reliable.
     
  16. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tennessee
    Thanks Craigspump,,,,Yes, I am strongly considering a pitless adapter and below ground installation,,,,

    But a question arises in that respect,,,,I was gonna use a 3/4 hp,,,,but if I drop the pump to 120' and then come from the well head to a possible garage I am wanting to place everything in below grade and then to the house,,,,

    Do I need to plan on going to a 1hp pump? The structure will be a small footprint 2 bedroom, 2 bath,,,with one of the new upgrade showers?
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    It is the water level that determines the pumping needs, not the depth of pump.

    I think a 7 GPM 1/2 HP or a 10 GPM 1/2 HP would be appropriate. 10 HP 3/4 HP seems like it would be OK too if you went with a larger pressure tank than the planned 44 gallons or a CSV.

    To me, 1 HP would be too much.
    img_4.png
     
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  18. ImWell

    ImWell New Member

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    Location:
    Tennessee
    So with the static water level at 52' you think 3/4 would be OK,,

    And at that depth,,,,do I need to go to a larger pressure tank?
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    I think it is above optimum for a normal house with your static level. In pumps, bigger is not necessarily better. It's not like a car engine, where bigger is a lot more fun.

    A 1/2 HP pump will give you about 9 or 10 gallons per minute if using 40/60 pressure switch. Those 1/2 HP pumps still give plenty of water for a normal house if the water dropped to 100 ft.

    For the pressure tank you want the pressure tank to take at least a minutes worth of water. A tank will take about 1/4 of its size in water. So a 44 gallon tank would be good for up to 11 gpm. If the tank took 2 minutes of water, that would be better. Many people have undersized pressure tanks, and they can last for many years. But bigger is better for pressure tanks.
     
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  20. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    10 GPM pump is not going to cut it if your "upgraded shower head" uses 12 or 18 GPM. Again, you need to find out the flow and pressure required for that shower head, as all other things in the house usually only require about 5 GPM. Then you can size the pump to take care of the shower head.

    Bigger is better when using just a pressure tank, but it is not best. Bigger tanks just reduce the cycling of the pump, but they do not eliminate pump cycling and deliver constant pressure to that shower like a CSV will do. Best is using a CSV with a small pressure tank as it will be less expensive, takes up less space, completely eliminates cycling while water is being used, and delivers strong constant pressure instead of constantly varying pressure like the old pressure tank only method will do.
     
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