Sand!!!

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by hosky, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. hosky

    hosky New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Been here before and have read alot of posts that have been helpful. About a month ago I had a post about filtering my water... Just a little recap...1600 ft free flow well (in MS delta) 220 gal tank (supposedly used to "filter" sand out) pumpand in-line cartridge filter.

    It was suggested to me that removing my 220 gal tank would help to solve my "then mentioned" problems. I did, it didn't. What I am noticing is that I have a sandy build up occuring. Dishwasher- on top of cups, commodes- forms around the bowl and that pesky in line filter casing has build up in the bottom. The tank is been put back in place but I still have the same sandy problem. I opened the 2" drain on the tank this evening and when the tank was almost empty the water was just about pure sand. However, the water is clear to the eye coming straight from the well.

    I think that it is too fine to see from the well head but accumulates rapidly to cause my problem. I did not install this well or any components, just bought the house and now have to deal with the well....

    What are my options? Thanks guys, I appreciate all your advice.

    -Hosky
  2. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    You were told that the 220 gallon tank wouldn't help remove sand. Even though it will take out some for a short time, the problem still exists.

    Your well produces sand. It will eventually eat the impeller and diffuser out of the pump. If you don't mind fixing the pump occassionly, install a sand filter. I think Gary and I both told you that we sell them and they work. If you want to keep using the inline so called "whole house filter" and keep buying cartridges, then that's you other option.

    bob...
  3. hosky

    hosky New Member

    Messages:
    32
    The inline filter is not filtering the sand, I don't care if it is there or not. It was already there and I am not replacing the filters. They are not clogging up.

    What is the option besides a sand filter?
  4. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Are you saying you have an inline filter that is not clogging up and it's not filtering the sand? Is it not plummed into the pipe feeding the house from the pump?

    bob...
  5. hosky

    hosky New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I know that most of the people on this site don't agree with the "whole house" filter idea, and I understand that. It doesn't matter to me if I have it or not. Its not like it is doing anything anyway!

    Can I come from the well into a "sand filter" and then to the pump then house? Will I need a resevoir tank? Seems like it would make sense to filter the sand as soon as it comes out of the well to keep from ruining the pump impeller and such. What do you recommend as the right layout?

    How much would a good sand filter cost me? Ballpark?

    -Hosky
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    You want to put it in place of the 220 gallon tank right? I would never recommend that to anyone except you since you already have a tank in front of your pump and it seems to work. The biggest thing would be getting all the air out of the sand filter before that pump could catch a prime. Once primed, I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's certainly not the approved method, but it should save your pump.

    My sand filter runs around $275.00. You would have to pick up a bag of sand locally since the shipping would be horendous to send a 40 pound bag protected well enough so it wouldn't have all leaked out before arriving at your house.

    bob...
  7. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Sand Trap Tank!

    If your inline home filter isn't catching any sand I suspect your hot water tank may have sand in it. Drain the tank through the lower outlet faucet before you do anything else.

    I too don't like a sand trap tank before the pump, however in your case I would recommend it.

    I usually recommend a somewhat cheaper installation! I use a short/fat galvanized pressure tank. Feed the well water into the side fitting on the tank, remove the plug in the top center of the tank and connect from this to the inlet of your pump. Install a ball valve near the bottom to ocasionally drain the sand.

    (The sand trap tank slows the volocity of the inlet water allowing the sand to fall to the bottom while the sand free water exits through the top center of the tank. It worked for me on sand wells and it's simple and cheap compared to a sand filter tank with sand media.

    Be sure to flush the existing sand from your pump pressure tank and your hot water tank.

    I would still install a fine full home filter between the pressure tank and the house supply to catch any micron sand escaping your sand trap tank.
  8. hosky

    hosky New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Before I start spending money I want to be sure that I understand what you are talking about...

    Bob- you suggest replacing my 220 gal tank with a sand filter then leaving the rest of my set up the same which includes...

    well head --> sand filter --> pump --> passes blue air tank --> pressure switch --> (optional whole house filter) --> line to house

    Does the sand filter act as a holding tank? Do I need one?

    Is this what you have in mind? I don't mind tearing everything down and starting over with just the well head. I just need some guidance on what I "really" need.

    Porky- you suggest something similar to this I think...

    well head --> sand filter --> short stubby tank --> pump --> passes blue air tank --> pressure switch --> (optional whole house filter) --> line to house

    Guys I really do appreciate your advice and don't think that I am not listening to you, I am just one of those guys that likes to know as much as I can before spending money that I may or may not need to.

    -Hosky
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Describe the tank that you would call a holding tank.

    My sand trap is a polyglass tank with the water going in the top down through a special distributor tube into the bottom of the tank about 12=16" off the bottom where the water is turned toward the top of the tank as it exits the distributor tube and then up and out, leaving the sand in the tank. The tank has a bottom center drain so you get all the sand out when draining water out the bottom. It would replace your 220 gal tank and whole house filter unless you wanted to keep that but I'd suggest removing it or at least the cartridge.
  10. hosky

    hosky New Member

    Messages:
    32
    I guess that my thinking on a holding tank would act as a resevoir to pull water from in the instance that I use more water than my well can replace simultaneously. The inline filter can go. This is something that I just want to be RIGHT not RIGGED. The sand filter may serve the purpose or I may just be thinking into this too much. I think this is how I need to go...

    well head --> sand filter --> pump --> house

    Just curiosity, will the sand filter work as fast as I can use the water? Will there be a chance that I can use all "filtered" water before it can be replenished?

    2 bath (only one used now)
    w/d
    dishwasher
    icemaker
    2 people in house normal use

    Thanks guys

    -Hosky
  11. Mad Plumber

    Mad Plumber Mad Skills

    Messages:
    222
    Two possibilities:
    1. Install a big cartridge filter with a 50 micron cartridge such as the HB-20-50W that can be hosed off when it gets plugged.
    http://www.harmsco.com/pdf/IP_Calyps...NAL_040904.pdf
    Housings are about $50 + shipping and cartridges about $30 each.
    2. Make a settling chamber with 3 pieces of 2" PVC pipe, 20 ft long, connected in parallel, and installed horizontally. Make provision for a drain so the sediment can be washed out.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    ......my question is we have this same problem in our well to our house plumbing. The company that drilled the well and the person that installed a Rainsoft water softener for us has given us no further advice. We have a pre-filter that uses the Calypso type filters, then the water softener then 2 more Calypso type filtration housings and we have to change these filters sometimes weekly but every other week for sure.
    What else can we do to eliminate all this sand still getting through running all our appliances?
    Melinda
  12. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    My sand filter is like Gary's in most ways. The difference is, I add a 40 lb bag of sand to help take out fines. The fines are backwashed out with a few valves that can be built into a manafold if you like.

    This is not a storage tank. It will be part of the suction line of the pump. You turn on the pump, it pulls on the sand filter and it pulls on the well. All one big happy family. None of this will ever replace a good well, but since your not in the market for a new well, this is your only option the way I see it.

    bob...
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You can't suck/get water out of that 220 gal tank if your pump sucks air. It's nothing but a big wide pipe in the plumbing.

    You aren't an engineer are you? Define RIGHT and then RIGGED. As long as the thing removes your sand, you're treating teh symptom of a well problem, not the cause, so really, rigged or not, what difference does it make?

    My sand filter is a manufactured patented product specifically invented and made to remove sand in the simplest and most effective way with the smallest foot print. It has a 21 or higher SFR (service flow rating) so the peak demand gpm of your house is no problem but, it is not meant to be sucked on. Frankly I don't know of any normally constructed tank that is.

    I suggest installing it after the pressure tank and worry about teh pump when and if you have a problem with the sand eating it up. As you see, you aren't getting the sand out now for how long and the pump is still pumping, right?

    Melinda, I wouldn't sell the system you have. Far too much maintenance and expense compared to my sand trap or an automatically back washed filter.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  14. hosky

    hosky New Member

    Messages:
    32
    RIGHT v/s RIGGED , rigged is what I have now and does not work.. Right is what I need and don't have. So now the ? is who has the sand filter I need? and what is needed to maintain it?

    Not an engineer, just a CT technologist with some common sense (I hope)

    -Hosky
  15. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Right is a new well. Rigged is anything you do to keep using the well that makes sand.

    Whether you put the sand filter in front or behind the pump, it's still Rigged.

    bob...
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You've got to go with someone's something, do it yourself, or use what you've got. Life is a series of choices.

    I will say that I don't understand how you get sand through your disposable cartridges... it may not be sand.
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