Sand in water

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Chuck2011

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Hi Folks,

New to the forum, glad I found it! Sure seems like great stuff with CSV & Psidekick, once I can afford a new well. There sure is a lot of great knowledge and people on here and I would really be thankful if you could give me some advice, good or bad.

Background: I am in central Florida, and recently began getting a huge amount of sand in my water. The home was built in ’67, has a 335’ well with an AO Smith C48K2FC11 [R1072] 3/4HP 3450 RPM, 230V, 7.4 amp vertical pump mounted on a 2.5" OD galvanized pipe in a small pump house in the carport with the pipe going through the cement straight down. No water or air leaks. Pressure is good, and the pump seems to cycle fine 20 on / 40 off (well, normally, being as it doesn't have a csv!). Pump doesn't run if no water is being used. I guess the well, motor and pump are original.

Situation: A few weeks ago we got a lightning hit during a storm before dawn. I thought power was out all over but noticed the lamp at the road was on which is rented from the utility company. Checked the breaker box and all breakers were tripped. Breaker box is inside house right in front of the well and pump. Reset them and everything seemed fine. A couple weeks ago my wife noticed a lot of sand/sediment in the bathroom shower upstairs, so began using the one I shave/shower in as it is filtered with a 20" big blue filter I installed for our laundry and hot water last year, which is also prior to my bathroom. I figured maybe something broke loose and it would clear in the other bathroom. Sunday I turned on a hose located outside of her bathroom and had a huge amount of sand come out. I ran it for about 30 minutes and started checking in a 5 gal bucket, and it seemed to get about 1/2 cup of coarse sand for each bucket.

Monday I flushed the toilet in that bathroom and noticed it wasn't filling up. Looked in the tank and it had sand in it. Shut off the water, pulled the flush valve, cleaned the tank, flushed the line feeding the tank, installed new flush valve and still got a little sand in the tank. Tried to wash my hands in the lavatory, nothing; pulled aerator and flushed the line of lots of sand. Tried the tub to rinse out tools & towels, no water from tub spout. Shower works but a lot of sand. Weird just a trickle from the tub spout hot or cold but shower still works / sprays.

Called insurance company and they said call a well guy or plumber and have them look at it and if they could certify it was due to lightning or surge they'd try to get it covered. Had a well guy come out and he said probably more due to age than lightning. He gave me a quote for a new 4" well, tank, pump for $8K if I ran the pipe and electric 85' to the new well location myself. We are extremely hurting financially and unable to pay for it at this time in any way we can imagine. (I'll just leave it at that.) So I started looking on the internet and found this site. I've read a lot of posts regarding sand in water but am fearful it doesn't look good for our well. I called the well guy back and asked about fixing the casing and he said since the pump doesn't run when the water is off he believes sand is coming from below the pump. He said there would be two (2) 21' pieces to re-sleeve it, but he'd hate to charge me $1k to do it and it last for only 2 or 3 months and be bad again.

So my questions are: is it feasible I could resleeve something that small somehow? Or could I put in a sand trap until I could afford a new well, which will probably be 6 months or possibly longer? Is this well done for? We're in quite a pickle financially right now, and I feel like I'm grasping at straws.

Thank you for your time and insight. I really appreciate it.

- Chuck
 
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Justwater

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welcome to the wonderful world of steel casing in florida. sounds like u have a 2" galvanized well. it is kinda rare that the casing rusted out underneath the jet, but i've seen it happen. usually its above the jet where the casing is pressurized. the grand to sleeve out underneath the jet isnt a bad price. you should ask him, even though there isnt a warranty, if the price guarantees a fix. i've seen some patches like that last years and years. but it is definitely a bandaid and one day the steel will fail again somewhere else.

also, that 8k$ well+pump price seems darn high to me.. i'd price around on that.
 

Chuck2011

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Hi Justwater, thanks for your response!

I spoke to him this morning but he didn't sound like he wanted to guarantee a fix at all, but I guess I can always ask again. I pulled and replaced a pump in NY many years ago, but got no idea what would be needed to patch / resleeve a casing like that. Seems like I'd have to pull the pump, drive something down that comes in 21' sections (i'm guessing 2"OD pipe of some sort??) below the pump. If it was above the pump I'd have no idea how to get a pump through that additional sleeve. seems like I'd have to disconnect the pump, slip on the pipe then reattach the motor and slide the works in. Is that something I may be able to do? What type sleeve/pipe is used to patch it?

I hear what your saying, the sticker shock blew me away! I got a second guy to come out and he quoted 320' depth, 3" galvanized well, pump, tank, and me do the electric & plumbing to the well site, for $7,510, but he didn't write it up. First guy was $7,980:
Permit $150
340' depth, 4" galvanized well; $5780
1HP 3450rpm pump & tank set; $1600
Abandon old well to code; $350
Temp hookup to house, customer (me) do final; $100

I really like the first guy, seemed like a straight shooter.

Thanks again.
 

Justwater

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oh.. ok. nothing pvc huh? you might be in one of those areas where ground can cave and people and rigs are lost (i've seen pics).. so driven steel is still used exclusively. probably costs so much because those dudes are running 600k$ rigs with air hammers to drive casing. sucks though because one day that steel will go out on the new well. with that said, dont get smaller than 4" casing... that way one day when the casing goes out, you can likely line the 4" casing with 3" FJ pipe and still use a submersible pump.

of course he didnt wanna guarantee the fix, i wouldnt either if i could get 8 grand for a 350' well and pump job.

its not impossible for you to fix it, i know what the guy is gonna do. you need to have a good idea of how much casing is in the well. only thing is.. that pump of urs is bolted to a well adapter. that well adapter has a drop pipe hooked to it.. at the bottom of that drop pipe there is a jet assembly with a foot valve. i have no idea how deep this jet assembly is set. it has leather packers on the assembly in order for it to work. this drop pipe/jet assembly must be pulled to install the "liner" pipe (1" pvc). problem is, many times you cannot pull up that old drop pipe by hand (especially inside an old rusty steel well). not saying its impossible, but you might bite off more than you can chew.
 
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Justwater

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wouldnt happen to be in area code 352 would u?
 
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Texas Wellman

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Sounds like it's time to break out the old pounder rig.

If the well is 2.5" you might be able to sleeve it all the way down. Post a pic of the well head, I'll can probably tell just by looking at it.
 

Chuck2011

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pics & location

Thanks for the feedback. Is there somewhere I can read about or see a pic or drawing of drop pipes, jet assembly and foot valves? Right now I'm only imagining them.

I'm located 5 miles east of Saint Cloud, 25 miles south of orlando international airport. Area codes are 407 & 321. Well/pump is located in a carport, so the roof would have to be cut away to do anything with it. Thanks again, and I hope these pics work:
 

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Texas Wellman

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Looks like a standard 2" well from this viewpoint. And an odd-ball sta-rite pump, but I've seen a few.

Good luck, I think you may be drilling/pounding a new well soon.
 

Justwater

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yep, 2" well. single stage vertical sta-rite pump. i saw one around here the other day. i dont know where you could see a pic of that assembly in the well.
 

LLigetfa

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Called insurance company and they said call a well guy or plumber and have them look at it and if they could certify it was due to lightning or surge they'd try to get it covered. Had a well guy come out and he said probably more due to age than lightning.
Age was likely a factor but the lightning probably delivered the death blow. The intense heat could cause the water in the casing to boil and the steam pressure rupture it.

The same sort of thing can happen with Ufer ground on communication towers where the concrete base explodes from the intense heat.

I would not roll over for the insurance and would fight to pro-rate the cost.
 

Chuck2011

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Yep, LLigetfa, I hear you. About 18 months ago we had lightning hit a pine tree in our yard while we were sitting on the back porch enjoying a thunderstorm. Blew pieces of bark over a hundred feet, and blew large chunks of our seawall into the lake in several areas. Killed the tree next to it also, I guess by killing the roots as there was no visible damage to that tree. It just seems too weird, or ironic this happened so soon after that power outage. I can't imagine how I could prove it though, let alone getting someone to fairly assess and attest to it, as the insurance company says they want.

Does anybody know where I might view the pieces and parts of drop pipes, jet assemblies or foot valves? I don't need to see them in a well, just so I can get an idea of what these things look like so I can determine if I might be able to deal with this thing. Thanks again for all y'all's insight.
 
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