Reserve Selection for Fleck 7000SXT

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Wally107, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    Although this is related to my other thread, it's a little more specific, and may be more helpful to all forum members as a new thread.

    I'm in the process (with Gary's assistance) of tweaking the programming of my new Fleck 7000SXT 64K (2.0cuft) system.

    When you get to Reserve Selection, there are 3 options:

    Safety Factor - expressed as a percentage of the total capacity
    Fixed Reserve Capacity - expressed as a gallon volume to be held as a reserve
    Variable Reserve - from the Pentair manual: "Variable reserve refills the brine tank based on
    gallon volume remaining when the unit starts regeneration."

    From everything I've read, it seems Variable Reserve is the most "automatic" (i.e. goof-proof) method for establishing a reserve. However...

    I've just begun to understand the concept of salt dose, and it's relationship to the Brine Fill cycle.

    "...refills the brine tank..." Does this mean that Variable Reserve actually adjusts the salt dose?

    Wally
  2. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    Yes. The unit know how much capacity it has left so it does not have to regen that amount.
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    That is the usual description for variable brining; it varies the amount of refill which equals lbs of salt which regenerates so much capacity which is figured in gallons.

    I don't see how that relates to variable reserve.

    Variable reserve usually causes a regeneration before the meter zeros based on an average of capacity used per day over the last X (7) days and if the historic volume for 'tomorrow' will get into the reserve set aside in the computer, then it will start a regeneration (at the scheduled time, usually 2AM). It does that within the K of capacity you program and that does not include any reserve capacity.

    Fleck may be doing it a bit different.
  4. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    Gary - I thought the exact same thing (after reading some of your other posts elsewhere).

    I was also reading the Pentair 7000SXT manual (link below). On page 6 paragraph 3, it talks about changing the Control Type. The default is "Meter Delayed - Fd"...and then on page 7 paragraph 10 it talks about changing the Reserve Selection to Variable Reserve (cr)...I presume these both need to be changed to for the Variable Reserve function to work...hmmm.

    http://www.pentairaqua.com/Files/KnowledgeBase/ItemDownload/en/42775 Rev D.pdf

    Methinks a call to Pentair may be in order - although I doubt I'll get a straight answer.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes I would think it has to be metered-delayed but I base that on Clack's variable reserve and Autotrol's Technetic 1000 and Avantapur 'proportional bring'.

    Years ago as a dealer, Fleck's tech support was very good at answering questions.

    Let us know what you find out.
  6. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    Just received this email from Pentair (Wayne Ploense's responses in italics)

    Question: Brand new 7000SXT. Came equipped with .125gpm BLFC. Any problem
    changing it to .5 or 1.0 BLFC (to shorten BF and therefore overall regen time)?

    Yes, the refill rate is based on injector size due to this unit refills the
    brine tank with soft water back through the injector orifice size. Your unit is
    giving you treated water after rapid rinse, not refill. Nor does it need to be
    back in service before you have treated water. You have until the next regen to
    have that brine tank refilled.


    I need to clarify with him, but I think he's telling me: Do not change the BLFC...since it's calibrated (my word) to the injector. It sounds like if I change the BLFC, I'd need to change the injector as well - probably more work than it's worth (?)

    Also, to use Variable Reserve, do I need to change both the Control Type (to
    fdPb)

    No that is a variable fill not variable reserve. Just change reserve to
    (cr).


    I interpret this to mean: Where the manual talks about Control Type, it's actually talking about (what we call) variable brining (what he calls "variable fill").

    Here's his contact info, incase anyone ever needs it:

    Wayne Ploense

    Pentair Water

    Technical Sales/Support, CWS-1

    1-800-279-9404 Ext 2119
  7. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    That's good info. I didn't think you needed to change the BLFC. That size (odd to me) was used for a reason. I didn't say anything on the matter before because I truely didn't know the answer. Thanks for the info.
  8. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    Again, to keep everyone informed and up to date, I asked Wayne for a little clarification (his responses in italics):

    Ref the .125gpm BLFC: I should NOT change it, since it is correlated (my word)
    to the injector...i.e. change one, change both (prob more work than it's worth.
    Correct?

    No, but the injector size is critical to the performance of the system.

    Ref changing Control Type to fdPb: NO to this as well.

    Correct

    Is this what's normally referred to as "variable brining"? (you called it
    variable fill).

    Yes

    If this is correct, can we change the wording in the 7000SXT manual? Page 6
    paragraph 3 calls it "Variable Reserve - fdPb"...but actually has nothing to do
    with Variable Reserve. (covered in Reserve Selection page 7 paragraph 10).

    Correct, that is a mistake in the manual.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I should have mentioned that the injector and BLFC go together. I would expect anyone selling you a BLFC would mention you have to change the injector and throat IIRC.

    You should go back to the guys you bought it from and ask why they are using a .125 BLFC. It is a very odd size and there is no reason for it.

    BTW, it is easy to change an injector etc.. You unscrew the old parts and screw in the new parts.
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I should have mentioned that the injector and BLFC go together. I would expect anyone selling you a BLFC would mention you have to change the injector and throat IIRC.

    You should go back to the guys you bought it from and ask why they are using a .125 BLFC. It is a very odd size and there is no reason for it.

    BTW, it is easy to change an injector etc.. You unscrew the old parts and screw in the new parts.
  11. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    OK...but does changing all of these screw up anything else with how it operates?

    Just an aside, when we started all these discussions, I sent emails to both Pentair, and the outfit I bought it from...Wayne is the only one to reply (so far).
  12. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,224
    Location:
    Maine
    Wally, why would you even consider messing with with either the BLFC or the injector? Do you really believe that the manufacturers rep has no clue as to the performance parameters of HIS own equipment?
  13. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    Tom - Initially, I was interested in shortening the overall regen time. Even though it would occur at 2:00am, I thought the quicker the better. But Wayne points out that the system is basically "in-service", delivering soft water at the end of RR, and - as long as you do your math correctly - the length of BF time really doesn't matter.

    As I learn more and more, and my ignorance is being replaced with knowledge, it's become more a curiosity thing more than anything else. I'm just wondering (and I think Gary is too), is there a reason (advantage) to a slower BLFC?

    As of right now, I probably won't mess with it...unless our discussions here (again, civil and respectful) determine a significant advantage one way or another.

    And trust me, I don't believe Wayne has "no clue". I respect and value his input just as much as anyone's. As a matter of fact, I was considering asking him to register and join in this discussion. I think he'd be a valuable player.
  14. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Nothing against Wayne... Fleck doesn't sell softeners or filters and his expertise is in how to program Fleck valves and in troubleshooting them. I'm not sure of how much experience he has in setting up a softener for the best salt and water use efficiencies; hence my questioning some of his quoted comments in this thread. The same as I question Steve (aka NHMaster, Peter Griffin, Tom Sawyer and a few other names he has used each time he's been banned here and re-registers).
  15. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    Is there a reason for you to slam him? Does it help with the OP questions? Would you care to inform us how many times you have been banned from other sites? There must be a reason the unit was set up with a .125 BLFC. I think it is a strange size, but I'm not questioning it.
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The OP questioned why the .125 gpm and personally I think we should question it if for no other reason than it is abnormal, odd and none of us can come up with any reason for it. Otherwise how are we helping the op?
  17. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    The OP never questioned the BLFC size. This is from him, "Now it's time for me to show my noobieness...it never occurred to me to look at the sticker on the valve for the correct BLFC - it's actually .125 gpm (yet another flaw in the instruction manual...oh well).I agree with helping the OP in every way. But tell me how bashing another member is helping?
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    He also said he wanted to reduce the time to complete a regeneration and reduce water use, and related it to the .125 gpm taking so long.
  19. Wally107

    Wally107 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Dutchess County, NY
    I've seen posts in other forums from people who have recently purchased 7000SXT's, and all of them have mentioned they have .125gpm BLFC. I'm going to touch base with Wayne at Pentair - maybe it's the new "standard" - dunno.

    I haven't heard anyone here give a significant disadvantage to it, nor an urgent reason to change it, so for now, I'll leave it alone.

    mialynette - my comment that you quoted was indeed a "noobie" mistake. At the time, I didn't now there's almost always a sticker on the back of the head showing the BLFC and DLFC - now I know. Also (in that quote), I mentioned a flaw in the manual...I was referring to the 7000SXT Installation Guide from the qualitywaterforless.com website. Here's a link - go to the table on page 16:

    http://www.qualitywaterforless.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/fleck/70sxtins.pdf

    I'm a little bit frustrated with all of the typo's and mistakes in this manual - especially this one about the BLFC. Oh well...
  20. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    Wally, I understand. You are new to this stuff. I just did not see where you questioned whether the size was correct or not.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2011
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