Replacing Water Service Line

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by xd2005, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. xd2005

    xd2005 New Member

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    I am about to replace the water service line (galvanized of unknown age) from my meter to my house (approximately 45 feet), and likely more, although I am initially focusing on this area. In addition, I will be adding a main water shut off (currently do not have one besides meter) and replacing an outside faucet.

    I am leaning towards going with CPVC due to cost and ease for me. The problem is, I have 22 units that will be used in the house. For copper, it looks like that would be a 1" pipe, however, for CPVC it looks like I should be going with 1 1/4, which I am fine with. However, I just stopped by a couple of the "big box" hardware stores and only was able to find up to 1". Any suggestions on where I should be looking for 1 1/4 CPVC pipe and fittings? Granted I will be able to step down to smaller diameters once inside, but for the service line at least I think that is what I need. Thanks.

    Brian
  2. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    You should use K copper if the soil is rocky or polly pipe sleeved in 4" corrougated drain pipe. In this area you are required to pig tail out of the house 10' with copper B4 attatching to polly. You also need to check with the water company as some have specific requirements as to what pig tails out of the meter. Who told you to use CPVC.
  3. xd2005

    xd2005 New Member

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    27
    As much as I like copper, I'm leaning away from it due to the galvanized that will still be under the house. If I was doing everything at this point, I would probably consider it (although cost is also a factor in the decision). Your recommendation for Poly might not be a bad idea. I was leaning away from it due to it being softer and more susceptible to cracking and potential issues with the clamp weak points.

    As far as pig-tailing...what if the entire house is CPVC, as I know is the case for many people? From the meter I can see, but the other way? Now if it is serving as the electrical ground, I can see that, but it seems all one would need to do is utilize a new source for grounding, which I would have to do as I move over to CPVC for the remaining plumbing anyways...correct me if I am wrong.

    I chose CPVC because from what I have heard it is superior to poly, not quite as good as copper but pretty close, and priced right.
  4. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    More common materials for the underground service would be PVC or black polyethylene. Both are readily available in 1¼". The advantage of poly is it comes on a roll, so no underground glue joints. PVC is widely used, however, with few problems. You get the idea that most of us on this forum are biased in favor of copper, but the other materials are widely used as well. Check with your local supply house to find out what the most preferred material is in your area. With the price of K copper today at almost unbelievable levels, there is strong motive to choose an alternative material!
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Speaking of Poly, I came home yesterday and my 1978 poly service line is leaking.
    1 person likes this.
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Will you use copper to replace it or will you just repair it?
  7. xd2005

    xd2005 New Member

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    27
    Thanks for all the info. One more question (for now). If using poly, do I need to step up the pipe size by 1 like CPVC? (for example, if I need 1" copper, do I need 1 1/4" poly)

    Thanks,

    Brian
  8. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    No, Just find out what size your meter is B4 buying your pipe. 3/4 will probably be fine. Do you know what size the Galv. line is coming in the house now? It should be 3/4" but it could be 1/2".
  9. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    If using poly, I would never go below 1" and would probably use 1 1/4"; 3/4 is just too fragile. You can get it in 100 psi, 160 psi, and other ratings.

    For a lifetime installation with standard use, I would probably use 1" poly in 160 psi grade. If you are going to be a big water user (irrigation, 80 gallon tub to fill, ??) you might select 1 1/4". I suspect that you can get a 100 ft roll at HD.

    The digging will far exceed the cost of the pipe.
  10. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    A 1.25" line on a 5/8 meter over 45' will do nothing a that a 3/4 " line wouldn't do.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2006
  11. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Maybe I'm dumb ... I don't get this, "will do nothing a that a 3/4 " line would do." I'd get water from a 3/4" line...Oh I see, A ''1.25" line on a 5/8 meter over 45'" wouldn't give you any water...

    Seriously, don't get your comment. Wouldn't the small bottle neck at the meter be better than all the headloss with the 45' of pipe?
  12. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    A 5/8" Badger in my catalog is rated for up to 25 GPM maximum, 10 GPM continuous. The 5/8" Master Meter Multi-Jet is rated 20 GPM maximum and 15 GPM continuous. Those are pretty high for a 3/4 poly pipe.

    I have seen too many failed 3/4" poly pipes to trust them for something that needs to last a long time. They are just to fragile. The 160 psi poly in 1" and 1 1/4" will hold up a lot better to trench loads, rough handling, and rocks; and the fittings are a lot more rugged.
  13. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    A 5/8 meter @ 50# Pressure will give X amt. of water per min. wether it is coming out of a 3/4" line or a 1.25" line.

    A larger size line after the meter won't give you more water.

    Out here many areas are putting the PRV in the pit. I always use the 200# PSI polly pipe and sleve it in 4" corragated drain pipe to protect against rocks ,ect..
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2006
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    No, but it won't restrict the water either by friction loss.

    Friction is the major cause of lost volumn, and thus pressure loss.

    Big pipes "are" better.

    With 22 units, you would want a 1" line at the least.
  15. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    5,980
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    Terry, or anyone else what would the friction loss difference be over 45' using 1" poly compared to 3/4"?
  16. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    1,328
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    Assuming that we have 5GPM over 45feet in plastic pipe, you'd have the following head loss (ft)

    1/2" -> 10.6
    3/4" -> 2.6
    1" -> .8
    1 1/4" -> .2

    Jason
  17. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    O.K. and if you drop down to 3/4" inside the house after the 1" now are you back to what you started with?
  18. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Location:
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    Let's say you have another 45 feet (plus fittings) of pipe inside the house, now you've more than doubled your headloss. If you had 3/4" inside and 1" outside, you'd be looking at something in the neighborhood of (not including fittings or verticle rise)

    3/4" -> 5.2

    1" & 3/4" -> 3.4

    That's only at 5GPM. At 7GPM you've doubled those figures again.

    You never know what the future holds for that pipe. Maybe they want to fill an 80Gal tub or install an irrigation system later. The closer you bring that larger supply to each fixture, the better flow and pressure you're going to get.
  19. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Then for best results 1" from the meter and through the house then branching off with 1/2" to the fixtures would be optimal.
  20. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Cave Creek, Arizona
    pipe

    Unless it is IPS pe pipe, then all the other plastic pipes, including CPVC which I have never seen used for a water supply service, are cts which is much smaller on the i.d. than copper.
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