Replacing Toilet Water Valve, should I remove old ferrule and compression nut?

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So yesterday I watched a Youtube video to learn how to replace a toilet water supply valve (getting rid of the old one with a new quarter-turn valve). I disconnected the toilet supply line, used two wrenches to unscrew the compression nut, then pulled out the old valve. I screwed in the new valve and connected it to the old compression nut. Turned on the main water supply, turned on the new toilet valve, and it worked, supplying water to the toilet as it should, and not leaking.

I could not remove the old ferrule, or compression sleeve, or whatever it's called, it was stuck in there good, so I had to reuse the old ferrule and compression nut (I have since purchased a Superior Tool brand Plumber's Puller, which says that it can remove 1/2" copper compression sleeves). I also didn't have sandpaper at the time to clean the pipe with, or PTFE Thread Seal Tape to wrap around the 3/8" and 5/8" male threads.

Should I redo the job, making sure to use the new tool to remove the old compression sleeve (or ferrule, whatever the right name of it is) and compression nut, clean the pipe with sand cloth, tape up the male threads with the thread seal tape, and then put on the new ferrule and compression nut?

Or is it no big deal to leave it using the old compression sleeve/ferrule and compression nut, on an uncleaned pipe, with no tape on the male threads?

For reference, the old valve was not leaking and the male threads were not taped.

Thanks for any help!

 
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Jadnashua

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If it doesn't leak and the old nut isn't an eyesore, leave it alone! FWIW, on a compression fitting you NEVER use tape. You could put a dab of pipe dope on things, or a drop of oil which helps to lubricate things while you tighten the nut down, but it is NOT necessary. OFten, the threads are not great, and if the die they used was dull, it may have small tears in the threads...that's where a little lube can make it easier to snug things up otherwise, the friction from the crappy threads can make it harder to judge when it is tight enough.

The tighter you make the nut, the more it compresses the ferrule into the pipe, the harder it is to remove it. Taken to the extreme, it can make it impossible to remove the ferrule. The nut acts like a wedge to push the ferrule into the pipe, creating the seal.
 

Gary Swart

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I would leave it alone. The cleaning for a compression fitting is not as critical as a sweat joint. Probably not a bad thing to do, but since it is not leaking, there's not much to be gained by redoing anything.
 

Terry

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We don't use tape on compression nuts and sleeves.
I don't know where you read that, but that is wrong.

A compression sleeve and nut normally has light oil on it to lube the threads. WD40 is fine for that.
At the most, maybe some pipe dope.
NO TAPE

If what you have is working, you can leave it.
We normally pull the nut and sleeve with a puller, and replace the escutcheon behind the nut. It looks nice that way.

You done good though, replacing the shutoff and having no leaks. :)

brasscraft-shutoff.jpg



ferrule-blaster-1.jpg


Updated 2018. A new tool I have been using to remove the back nut and ferrule.

pasco-sleeve-puller-terrylove-01.jpg


And this one gets the really tough ones.
 
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Thanks for your help guys. The gentleman at the Lowes plumbing desk was the one who said to always use tape on male threads. He showed me where on the valve to put it. I guess he was mistaken.

I have 4 more valves to replace with the newfangled quarter-turn valves. Looks like I'll go about it the same as the first time, but I'll also try to use the Plumber's Puller to remove the old ferrule and compression nut, and sand cloth to clean the pipe.
 

Gary Swart

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The clerks at big box stores usually are not experienced plumbers. (Some are) Bad advice is common.
 

Dj2

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Most guys at the box stores are unqualified to give advice.
It's simpler to say: "I'm not sure, but let me find out for you" than to give an erroneous and misleading answer.
 
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I think that must be true. The second gentleman I asked in the Plumbing department said that 1) You always have to remove the old ferrule and compression nut before you replace the toilet valve, and 2) the only possible way to do this is to cut off the pipe behind the ferrule.

Were they at least correct in telling me that I can also use the same Quarter Turn Angle Valves (5/8" Inlet, 3/8" Outlet) to replace the valves on my bathroom sink faucet, as well as the toilet valves? The faucet valve and toilet valves look identical to me, but it's always good to make sure. I need to replace two faucet valves and two toilet valves.
 

Dj2

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1. You have to replace the sleeve for sure, if it's damaged. But as you can see, when it's not damaged, you can re use it. The same applies to the nut.
2. Not true. If you use the special tool, you don't need to cut the nipple. Besides, sometimes you have a short nipple that you can't cut.

The last question: angle stops (valves) are relatively inexpensive. Just get as many as you need and use new ones. We use the same type of angle stops for the sink faucet and the toilet supply.

Make it a habit to check for leaks. I do.
 

Reach4

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Sorry, could you tell me what you mean by "if they have the same thread"?
He either means if the old nut has the matching thread (diameter and pitch) as the mating thread on the new valve, or he means that the old valve and the new new valve have the same male thread. Same thing.
 
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Ah, I see. So sanding the pipe clean when replacing a compression valve is just not necessary, or could it actually be harmful?
 
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Also, in addition to my last question about sanding the pipe, is it recommended to replace the toilet water supply line with a new one, if the old one still seems to be working fine and doesn't look all that old? Or should I just leave the old one in place?
 

Dj2

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I'd replace the supply connector as well. They are inexpensive and they come with new washers, so you get one less thing to worry about.
 

drg

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I'm glad I searched to verify how to put this valve on. The packaging for my "Angle Valve Quarter Turn Shut Off Copper Compressions Hook Up" valve states, "Wrap threads with thread seal tape before assembling nuts." So I did. Then I wondered how many wraps and found this conversation.

When my neighbor said his plumber replaced four of his shut-off valves for $240 (and I have ten to replace), I started reading, watching U-tube Lady Videos (Leah on Jane Drill gave me the courage to try), bought a pipe wrench, valves, etc. Everything was hard stuck together and thick with the blue stuff. One valve off, pipe cleaned, and nine to go.

I read somewhere that putting some "silicon grease" on the threads would help prevent corrosion and make them easier to remove years later. I was handed Plumber's Grease and assume it is the same thing. That just does not seem like a good idea so I'm going with the bare threads. Now with confidence, so thanks!
 

Plumbstar

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I've been using Dahl stops for years for their superior quality. My only issue is the depth of the recess for 1/2" copper pipe. Most common existing valves are Brasscraft. When replacing BC with Dahl, while retaining existing ferrule & nut, the lack of depth in the Dahl causes the ferrule to be moved to meet the Dahl stop. I've had issues getting a seal especially if previous stop was over tightened. If there's excess pipe no problem. Even with ferrule removal tool, the pipe can be too distorted to get a seal. Please leave excess length stub outs during construction
 
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