Replacing toilet drain

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by guga, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Hi, I posted a question last year regarding replacing the tub and sink drains/vents. At that time I was advised to transition from the copper to ABS with Fernco sleeves and leave the toilet drain as is.

    I've since discovered that the toilet drain is lead that transitions to brass before entering the main stack. As a result some people have suggested that I replace the toilet drain. What I'm wondering is if this can be accomplished without replacing the cast iron wye in the stack with an ABS wye? From what I understand threading an ABS toilet drain into the cast wye can be problematic. Thanks in advance.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2008
  2. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The lead is soldered to a brass ferrulle , If you cut out as much lead as possible, you can then heat the ferrulle and melt the remainder of lead. As the lead is melting off, wipe the brass ferrulle with a cloth to give you a smooth surface to work with. They make 4x3 fernco couplings and add your new 90 elbow and flange
  3. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    This spot in the pic and remove lead flange

    Attached Files:

  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    You need to cut, file, whatever as much lead off as you can, or you'll burn the house down trying to get that hot enough to melt the lead. Once you get most of it off, then you can torch things to melt what's left and clean it up. If you've got a really hot torch, you might be able to melt divots out of it, but normally, the whole thing has to get hot enough to melt, and that is one huge connection. My unprofessional opinion.
  5. Herk

    Herk Plumber

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    That's not lead - it's wiping solder. Beautiful. I've never actually seen a brass double wye like that before, especially wiped to a piece of lead pipe.

    You might be able to melt it off and get a no-hub or low-flex coupling on there. Since I've not seen it done this way, I can't tell you what the end of the double wye looks like.

    I don't know what your code says about it. Some places don't allow work to be done without bringing it up to current codes. In that case, you'd probably end up re-plumbing the entire mess.

    There's a warm place in my heart for those old plumbers . . .
  6. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Hi, thanks for all the input. So far so good. It wasn't too difficult to remove actually. It turns out the end is 4 3/8". The brass seems pretty solid. Is there any thing in particular to look for in terms of determining the integrity of this other than the fact that it isn't leaking?

    In terms of the specific coupling could someone provide me a link? I 've read a bit about the different types of coupling, but obviously want to make sure I get the right one. Cheers.

    [​IMG]
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    I think you should be able to use a no-hub connector to transition to plastic. This is a neoprene sleeve with a metal band around it and hose clamps at each end. I've seen them at big box stores...make sure to get the one with the reinforment, not the thicker, all rubber ones (which are only approved for underground connections where the ends can be properly supported to keep the pipes aligned). The band keeps the pipe ends aligned.
  8. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2008
  9. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Hi thanks for all the input. I had to order the "no Hub" coupling. Locally they only stocked the flexible Fernco coupling.

    The brass pipe as you can see seems slightly flared on the end and is not totally round. The outside diameter is 4 3/8" and the diameter perpendicular to this measurement is 4 5/16". Not knowing much about these things I hope the coupling will accomodate these inconsistencies. If not I'll be back or will be hiring a plumber. Thanks again.
  10. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The concensus here at this site is that you cannot use flexible fernco couplings above ground. According to the manufacturer, they say different.
    http://www.fernco.com/specialty.asp

    In my area, you can use them for repairs above or below ground, but not on new installations. On new installations/rough-in, only the "no hub" couplings allowed
  11. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    My concern at this point relates to the 4" brass wye, which is 4 3/8" outside diameter as compared to 4" cast or ABS/PVC which is 4 1/2" outside diameter. From what I have been reading this will likely be a problem with the coupling I ordered. Has anyone had any experience with this?
  12. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    No it will not be a problem . The 4" diametre refers to the inside diameter of the pipe. The outside diameter (depending on the type of material) would be anywhere from 4 3/8" to 4 3/4". The coupling will stretch to 4 7/8" with ease.
  13. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    Manufacturers will tell you what ever you want to hear. They also sell a full rubber fernco "P" trap. I'm sure there is not many places that allow that by code. I'm sure the inspector would pull it off and smack the plumber that installs it.

    My point is just because they sell it doesn't make it code. They can sell anything. If you want to do it right don't use junk. It is the guys that use ferncos and other such junk that give hard working code following Plumbers like my self and many others a bad name.
  14. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm honestly having a hard time swallowing that statement. What they say is not what I want to hear. If I ask the manufacturer for a product that is good for above ground as well as below ground, then I expect them to tell me what meets standards. You may not want to use a product because it will look like crap, but it will function like any other connection as long as their is no movement from both ends that are being connected. If one side has the possibility to move, then I could see there being a problem, but you are not going to rely on any plumbing piping, regardless of what material it is , to hold up and stabilize any type of fixture.

    Each product has a specific application and to misuse or use it properly falls entirely on the person installing it. The codes that I'm reading suggest that these couplings can be installed as long as you have access to them at any given time . The no hub couplings were designed for cast iron piping to replace hub and spigot joints and therefore are approved to be hidden in walls, or if the installer feels that it looks good, can be exposed.
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