Replacing pump, need help.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by deathbyDIY, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. deathbyDIY

    deathbyDIY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    virginia
    Okay: dying pump is 4" .75hp Myers "Rustler", 12GPM, 2-wire/230V. It's down 160', installed in 1998. System has an Amtrol WX-203 tank, 30/50 pressure switch.

    Shopping for a replacement, and the info you pros supply is priceless. Looking for something Franklin-motored(dying pump was, and lasted 15 yrs.) Research shows Myers no longer uses these motors(?) So if you were replacing your daughter's pump, what brand/series name would you hunt down?

    Also, am I disrupting the "math" of the system if I bump up in power(e.g. a 1hp, higher GPM?) I have an instinct that more power means the pump will work less hard, but I have a stronger instinct that I'm just a car guy who's wrong(again) and that I should just replace it with exactly what worked for 15 yrs; altho, of course, I can't. They don't make the same exact pump anymore.

    Thanks. You guys rock.
  2. craigpump

    craigpump Active Member

    Messages:
    1,027
    Location:
    ct
    Considering the tank that is being used Im surprised it lasted this long.

    I wouldn't install anything that doesn't have a Franklin motor, so I would highly recommend a Franklin stainless steel pump. The downside is that you probably aren't going to get it online, so you will have to find a pump supply house that will sell it to you or possibly a friendly pump installer that will sell it out right.
  3. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
  4. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    Don't be so fast to judge the "other" brand. I have been using the Centri-Pro (and it's twin pentek) for years with no problems. As much as they would like you to believe, Franklin wasn't the only company that had submersible motor technology. I didn't choose to switch, but when franklin decided to enter the pump business they made my decision for me. I will use any brand but I haven't had any trouble with the alternates. PM me if you have more info, I would like to hear it.

  5. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Centri-Pro and Pentek 6” and larger motors are just Hitachi motors painted blue. I have always had good luck with Hitachi motors. I have heard from a few people that Pentek was having problems with the splines on the 4” motors, but they supposedly have they fixed. I have also heard from others that the 3 HP and 5 HP motors were giving some problems.

    What are some of the oldest motors you have running? Have they lasted long enough to give us a track record?
  6. deathbyDIY

    deathbyDIY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    virginia
    Craig: So the tank is inadequate/too small, or a cheap brand? I'd just as soon replace it if so. 2 person house, one bathroom, no irrigation. But the reserve does seem to make the well cycle about 5-6 times for a long shower(common) or a long dishwasher run(also common.)

    Was only leaning toward a Franklin-powered unit because of the consensus here; take the 2 to 1 vote in this thread, for example. And there's a good chance this will be done by an installer, I'd say 50/50. I just want to be sure the guy doesn't sell me something you guys will wager to fail in a few years, so all three opinions matter. Thanks for 'em.

    Red Lion pumps with Franklins--worth it? And do/do not bump up in horsepower? Can I bump up in gallons per minute?

    Too bad none of you are neighbors. I'd like to have any of ya' do the job.

    Thanks again.
  7. craigpump

    craigpump Active Member

    Messages:
    1,027
    Location:
    ct
    I like to see at least one minute run time, preferably more. A wx203 @ 40/60 has about 9.5 gallons in it between pump cycles. A pump rated at 12gpm doesn't have much run time with a wx203.

    I think WellXTrol makes the best tank on the market with the best warranty. The only time we don't use them is in a very damp environment or when the water lines don't have enough coverage to prevent freezing and a bleeder is required.

    My personal experience has been that the newer 4" Grundfos and Centripro motors don't give the same service as a Franklin. We seem to pull a lot of GS series Goulds with Centripro motors that have quit a lot sooner than they should have. Combination of 2 and 3 wire units. We have installed 3 and have pulled the same 3 Grundfos pumps with Grundfos motors in the past 4 years, none were the SQE's. in comparison, we have installed few hundred Franklins and had 2 or 3 failures in the same 4 yr time period, one due to lightning.

    I remember as a kid working for my father in the early 70's that the Franklins would quit whenever there was a thunderstorm.

    I have no experience with Red Lion pumps, matter of fact, never seen one. But I think they have plastic motor mount and discharge and I'm just not big on that type of pump contruction.
  8. deathbyDIY

    deathbyDIY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    virginia
    That's excellent experience-based advice; thanks, Craigpump.

    (I, too, thought a run time of under thirty seconds and repeating that many times during a shower/laundry/dishwasher job seemed kind of worrisome over a span of years. I'll get a bigger tank.)

    And I'll aim higher than Red Lion. Should I increase HP/GPM?
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
  9. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Double the size of the tank and it will still cycle 3 times during a shower instead of 6. But if you go with a CSV, it will only cycle 1 time for a shower, even if the shower is a month long. Using a CSV to control the cycling also means you can use an even smaller tank. Eliminating pump cycling solves a lot of problems, and cost less than a big tank. You still need a quality pump, but any pump, even a cheap one will last longer if you eliminate the cycling. See these links.

    http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/simple/home.php

    http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/prod_psidekick.html

    Don't increase the GPM of the pump. It won't build as much pressure unless you also increase the horsepower.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
  10. deathbyDIY

    deathbyDIY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    virginia
    Valveman: I'm very intrigued by the CSV and psidekick info. I've been reading your postings all weekend. Still formulating a battle plan, but I like the concept a lot, and I'm leaning your way. Many thanks.
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Thanks for the PM. I hope it is OK for me to reply here. The Pside-Kick would go on the pipe coming through the wall from the pump. Then just attach the pipe going into the house to the outlet side of the Pside-Kick. Nothing new about the CSV, we have been doing this for 20 years, and there are many 20 year old CSV’s still working. Here is a link to a video of replacing a big tank with a Pside-Kick.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRrJ9AAe7GM
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