Replacing Pumbing

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by nypdlee, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. nypdlee

    nypdlee New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hilton Head Island
    I am replacing the plumbing (polybutilene) in my home. Luckily I have easy access under the home with a five foot crawl space. I have to choose between Flowguard Gold or PEX. I am leaning toward the Flowguard but so far the quote is $1300 more from a company that installs it. Is that price difference worth it? Is one product better than the other? I live in South Carolina just above the Georgia coast line, so the weather is moderate.
    I am also replacing an Electric Water Tank. On this island they are installed in the attic. (I'ts like an impending disaster waiting to happen) Any suggestions. Thanks :confused:
  2. LonnythePlumber

    LonnythePlumber Plumber, Contractor, Attorney

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    Wichita, Kansas
    Pex

    I would not favor the CPVC over PEX but some may. That does seem to be a major price difference.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,263
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    cpvc

    The major difference may be caused by the greater labor involved with the FlowGard. It is like copper so it is installed straight and needs fittings to turn corners and such. PEX if the installer does not care about appearances can be installed like spaghetti and just bent around corners and down into walls. Because of this it is also easier to thread through holes in joists and studs.
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    "...if the installer does not care about appearences"!!

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a practical no joints in the run but the one on each end installation is always beautiful if you want better flow and less pressure loss; and I've never been able to find any homeowner/customer that wants a loss of pressure and flow... and I specificaly ask them.

    The fact is that each elbow and additional foot of tubing costs pressure which reduces flow. To compensate for the losses, the pressure has to be increased. Each additional lb of pressure runs the risk of exceeding the maximum velocity of the size and type of tubing used and thereby the risk of water hammer which casues serious and expensive damage to the system and all water using appliances the system services. Then water hammer arrestors are installed to 'correct' the problem; all at the expense of the customer!

    All that simply so the "installer" can brag of how the system LOOKS! That's okay in their own home but only the uninformed customer or "installer" will opt for LOOKS over practical.

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
  5. nypdlee

    nypdlee New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Hilton Head Island
    Re- Plumbing

    Thanks for the insight from all. I am getting two more bids on the project and checking refernces.
    Is there anything that I should consider as to convenience with the new plumbing such as shut off valves. Is there such a thing as having a shut off valve panel similar to an electric panel where I can shut off different sections of the house without going under the sink?
    I hope you folks all have a great Christmas and holiday. I know how hard you all work. Thanks loads from a retired cop.
    Jim
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes any 'homerun' type install with PEX should have a manifold with individual shut off valves for each line. And you could add another valve at the fixture if you wanted to.

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
  7. LonnythePlumber

    LonnythePlumber Plumber, Contractor, Attorney

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    Wichita, Kansas
    Looks Good

    I think a system that looks good is an indication that it is installed correctly. I quit using the manifolds since I install stops at all the outlets anyway. The manifold adds about $150.00 to the job. I have never had to use arrestors whether I install copper or PEX.
  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    So looking good says done correctly... ummmm how do you make a 'correctly installed' homerun PEX system look good; hell even I don't like the look! ;) But then I've never seen an incorrectly installed PEX system, well, except those run like copper, or CPVC. When I see one, I grit my teeth and quickly look away. lol

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
  9. LonnythePlumber

    LonnythePlumber Plumber, Contractor, Attorney

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    Wichita, Kansas
    Attitude

    Gosh Gary, you seem to be having more of an attitude than usual. I do follow your comments about water quality and plastic lines. A professional looking job does not mean a good job and I did not say that. It is an indication of the quality of the work and materials used. Your position that an incorrectly run PEX system is one installed like copper or CPVC reveals prejudice.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2004
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,814
    Location:
    New England
    I think his comment referred to using a bunch of connectors to turn corners. Doing so would negate many of the benefits of running pex, add more labor, and introduce more chances of failure. The beauty of pex is that in most cases, you don't need a connector except at each end. As long as the turn is within the wall cavity, protected from nail penetration as any pipe should be, not kinked or butting up against panels, able to flop around, it should be golden. My unprofessional opinion...
  11. LonnythePlumber

    LonnythePlumber Plumber, Contractor, Attorney

    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    Wichita, Kansas
    Ohhh!

    Thank's for explaining Jim. But Gary was still mean to me so I'm going to drink some dirty water just to spite him :p .
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes exactly, thanks Jim.

    Lonny, not that I agree with drinking dirty water or me being mean! yur words were like fingernails on the blackboard... plus I just couldn't help myself. Running PEX like copper or CPVC!! Absolute SACRILEGE I SAY! Possibly you've been cavorting with the wrong crowd, they have attitude! Or ya missed the funny little colored thingy after the comments? :)

    But as you may have noted, Jim'n I are buds because we know REAL beauty when we see it. Done right by intelligent and informed folk... that install it correctly. :D

    Speaking of prejudice... in a plumber's forum.... that's good! Especially when I swear some of these guys still have their first ever blow torch on their truck and not 'cuz they do CI sewer lines... ;)

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
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