Replace Flushometer w/High Tank feed?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by oddball, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. oddball

    oddball New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Hi,

    I want to use a wall mounted WC, but I also want to use a "high tank". Goals are to use a wall mounted bowl -- for easy floor cleaning -- and a high tank -- just for the period look. I just don't trust tanks mounted inside the wall.

    90% of all wall mounted bowls accept flush water from their back side, i.e. the side against the wall. I'm convinced I can craft the plumbing (albeit not easily) to feed a high tank into one of those bowls and make it work. I mean the bowl already expects gravity feed water from a tank, so it's just a lot of custom pipe fitting.

    10% of wall mounted bowls have top mounted spud. However, all are illustrated using a "Flushometer" to feed water instead of a tank.

    Any thoughts on whether I can just dump the water from a high tank into the top spud of one of those bowels and have it flush? Grin ... A high tank's higher water pressure at toilet level left a vision of Old Faithful.

    George
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,783
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I'm guessing that the high tank on the wall would work.
    The last high tank toilet that I flushed almost spun the water out of the bowl it came down so fast.

    It would be a gamble though. I wonder what Scott thinks.
  3. oddball

    oddball New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Hi Terry,
    Thanks. I guess I'll just have to try it.
    Seems if I put a valve somewhere, so I can adjust the flow speed, from the tank I'll be ok.
    Grin ... its just physics and not rocket science.
    It could be a month till I get it tried, so I'll try to remember to come back and post the results.
    George
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,783
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If it doesn't work, you can always install the Glenwall with Flushmate.
    It seems that dropping the water from that high should work though.
    Let us know how it works, and a picture would be nice.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,270
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I am not sure where you are getting your information, but the MAJORITY of wall hung toilets have a top spud. VERY FEW have the rear inlet, and they are usually used in commercial applications where there is a "pipe chase" behind it for access to the connection. Top inlet bowls are designed for the "instantaneous" power of a flushometer. Your high tank MAY give the required psi/gpm flow required, but it is NOT a given that it will work.
  6. oddball

    oddball New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Hi HJ,
    Thanks. Grin ...
    A) Isn't it pretty obviously making it up as a go ... where it seems no men have gone before, but
    B) More seriously if there's a commercially avaialble wall-mounted-bowl/high-tank combination, I sure can't find it, and
    C) Yep ... making a high tank dump into a wall mounted bowl from it's wall side would be a pretty awful exercise in frustration ... but on the other hand, this is the 21st century and if last century folks could get to the Moon ... I'm betting with a good metal lath and some welding and polishing I could fashion pipinig that would make the bowel think the high tank was behind the wall.

    Anyway ... if anyone else wants to chime in, I'd appreciate your bets on which approach has the best chance of being made to work?

    1. High tank imitating a flushomatic with top spud bowel [i.e. betting the High Tank's height would build the same pressure as a flushomatic], or
    2. High tank pretending it is the in the wall where the bowl is expecting it to be [guaranteed workable ... but hugely time and money intensive. I mean with a valve in there somewhere I could adust the High Tanks's gravity based water flow to be exactly the same as the gravity flow from a lower tank]

    Any chance anyone knows how much pressure the flushomatic generates? Heck ... with enough of head, there is no limit to water pressure ... just ask BP ... so the only question is if ceiling hieght is high enough ... or it it would take the attic .... which defeats the whole thing.
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,817
    Location:
    New England
    Flushometer valves rely on a large supply pipe so they can dump a lot of water in a very short time. Gravity flush toilets have proven they can do similar things, thus the introduction of 3 and even 4" flapper valves on their tanks. While pressure does come into play, and I'm sure there is some minimum, it's more the volume provided by the supply pipe and valve that are the primary factors.
  8. oddball

    oddball New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Hi jadnashua,
    Thanks. As I said, it will take me a month or so and if I survive I'll remember to return to let everyone know what happens.

    And thanks for the volumn over pressure thing. I'll look for the High Tank with the biggest exit hole and most likely try to over size the vertical pipe.

    Actually my next step is to calculate the volume of that pipe. Seems it will have a lot of water in it. Like a very tall very narrow "tank" itself.

    But I think pressure is still an issue. I mean one flushometer bowl has a 1 1/2" spud. So the ONLY two things that will determine how much water passes through it how fast are

    1) The availablity of water ... which if I put in say a 1 3/4" vertical should be as much as a 1 1/2" inch hole can take, i.e. it won't be drag that holds back water flow, just the spud hole that holds it back, and

    2) the pressure pushing the avaialable water through the spud, which should be quite a bit higher at the base of a 6 foot head than at the exit from a low tank.

    Sounds good on paper ... huh? Wish me luck.
    GLB
  9. Leboul99

    Leboul99 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    glb - I had exactly the same idea - connecting a high tank to a flushometer bowl with a top spud - but for a different reason: we wanted to attach a British High Tank to a nice elongated toilet bowl - and all the High Tanks come with round front bowls. So - we thought - well, grab a flushometer elongated bowl with a top spud and connect it to a high tank.

    It has been a couple of years since your last thread - how did it all turn out?

    LB
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,270
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Flushmates and "flushometers" do NOT GENERATE power, they use, and operate at, whatever pressure the city supplies. Most high tanks use a 1 1/4" flush pipe so you would need a 1 1/2" x 1 1/4" reducing closet spud on the toilet.
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