Redgard for tiled shower? Waterproof...

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by worrywell, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    I see the wrong fasteners used and missing blocking.

    The holes for the water lines through the studs look to tight. I don't see any Donald Duck Clips clips on the wall studs either for the water lines.

    Is your shower's mud bed all graded to the drain? It looks off some how - almost like it is draining to the front left side.... Maybe it's just the angle.

    Before any waterproofing like RedGuard would be used we would first scratch coat the backer board and tape the seams. But your backer board is not being installed as spec'd - go look up the install instructions for this first.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    FWIW, the mesh tape and thinset on the joints of CBU are to tie the sheets together to approximate (as close as possible) a mudded, monolithic wall - it isn't really for sealing things. You don't need it between the bottom edge of the walls and the pan if that area is blocked well - read the installation instructions.

    IF you are going to use something like RedGard on it, the mesh and thinset must be done first and allowed to cure before you add the RedGard. Otherwise, you may just want to do it as you tile. Unlike drywall, you do NOT want your seam to end up with any hump, commonly used to hide the tape or mesh on the seam...you really want it nice and flat. Tiling over speedbumps is a major pain!

    Personally, RedGard is okay for a wall or say around a niche, but I prefer other methods. I think the average DIY'er will have trouble getting the proper thickness of the layers when it is used for waterproofing and avoiding thin spots or pinholes. While not expensive, most do not buy and use the wet thickness gauge. The stuff MUST be applied at the right thickness, and no, thicker is not better! The thickness must be between the min/max stated in the instructions or you might as well not install it in the first place.
     
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Improper Coverage of Red Guard

    File under "How not to install Red Guard"

    [​IMG]

    Coverage is far to thin.

    Tie in to the tub deck is poorly done.

    Almost perfect - but not quite.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  4. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    Any opinion on doing kerdi DS on the shower pan and taping the floor wall joint with kerdi band, then redgarding the walls? I hate kerdi overlap!
     
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    No warranty from either company.
     
  6. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    Not too worried about the warranty. I doubt either company has ever paid a warranty claim anyway. I'm more concerned if there is any chance it would work. I believe JB even mentioned using it before on a compound curved shower surface.
     
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    They all work if you are careful, follow the rules, and have good workmanship. Some are easier than others. With RedGard, there's a sweet spot, too little and it works as a decoupler, but isn't waterproof, too thick, and you risk other issues. Since it's hard to judge your exact wet thickness, and testing the cured thickness puts a hole in it, your best bet is an inexpensive wet thickness gauge and careful application.
     
  8. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    Any opinion on doing a kerdi pan and redgarding the walls of a shower?
     
  9. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    Never used ardex products, but I see you recommending them frequently. I'll have to see if they are available locally. I'd rather trowel on a cement based product than spread that goopy red stuff anyway.
     
  10. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    It's done regularly with success. The main advantage, IMO, is that one need not wait days til the mud bed cures out before applying the liquid waterproofing. The main disadvantage is that as it's a hybrid system, it's not recommended for a DIYer as each install may need to be detailed differently to achieve success. If you're not familiar with either products, it's best to pick one and use it for the whole shower. :)
     
  11. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    The reason for the question is that I hate kerdi overlap. Especially when using small tiles.
     
  12. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    With small tiles you would want to skim the wall out and get it perfect.

    What colour grout you planning?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  13. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    Still in the planning phases of my next project. Hardly at grout selection yet. Why you ask? Dang...closest Ardex dealer is 2 hours away.
     
  14. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    Why not just Redgard the whole thing Jim? Finishing this one up tomorrow. :)

    IMG_4760.jpg
    IMG_4774.jpg
    IMG_4797.jpg
    IMG_4814.jpg
     
  15. jim mills

    jim mills New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    nebraska
    Dana, I just feel much more confident in having a sheet membrane on the floor. I've done just one hydroban shower & it still comes to mind every time my phone rings. Just paranoid I guess...
     
  16. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    I understand the trepidation with liquids. Sounds like you're a pro, and if so, suggest checking out the many successful installs over at a site that's dedicated to tile. These guys know their stuff, they don't just play contractor, they are tile contractors. :)

    http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=4
     
  17. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    Not sure if I mentioned that over at the dedicated tile pro's site, johnbridge.com, it's not just one person you're dealing with. It's a wealth of information from tile pro's around North America and the world. Of course, we rarely agree on what is proper, but we try to remain respectful and friendly even when we disagree.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat, and over there we discuss many of the hybrid systems out there. There's pros and cons to all, and we've beaten some of these systems to death over the years. One other thing I'll mention... on a trip to Custom Building Products research facility last year, many of the pro's over there met some of the engineers and scientists who assure that their products meet or exceed industry and tile pro's standards. Liquid waterproofing systems have evolved greatly from the old 9235 days, and CBP's work with Redgard has changed it to a very competitive product with HydroBan. If installed properly, there's no worries with using a quality liquid as a shower floor waterproofing - of course this means prepped, installed, and maintained properly. :)
     
  18. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    Remember Jim, when using Redgard, or any liquid membrane system, follow the manufacturers installation instructions for getting proper coverage. With Redgard it's easy to verify and CBP gives several good options for getting there. If you don't have a wet film gauge, simply follow CBP's instructions on choosing and using a proper trowel, proper technique, proper number of coats, and away you go. You'll need multiple coats of course, just like any liquid.

    In the photos above, you can see the first wall coat after the corners were pre-treated. All this according to the manufacturers installation instruction. This particular shower was constructed in a high humidity environment, so typical dry times were extended. Again, no worries, just follow the manufacturers installation instructions for dry/cure times & coloration, and you'll be fine.

    It's always a good idea to flood test, whether it's required by the AHJ (that's the code folks) or not. We adhere strictly to this and test all showers whether it's required or not by code or contract. ... I've had this conversation with a number of code folks over the years, and some have no idea what you're getting on about. Especially for a DIYer or someone unfamiliar with the products, testing is a good benchmark for your floor waterproofing install, whether it's required or not. Of course, a flood test is only 1 small step in the successful completion of a proper shower and a passed flood test is no assurance that the shower is properly constructed. :)
     
  19. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    I'll repeat this for anyone who may have missed it.

    We test all our tiled showers, whether it's a requirement of the AHJ, the code, the individual inspector, contract or not. Most codes require a 24 hour test, some test longer. Both are fine. Again, a passing test is no assurance that your contractor knows how to properly put together a shower. Pay attention to this; having inspectors or anyone else witness shower testing is *NOT*, I repeat *NOT* a requirement by many jurisdictions regardless of whether it's adopted by code or not. Inspectors, quite simply, are over burdened and overworked, and witnessing a shower test is not high on their priority list often times. I can attest to this with personal experience from both sides of this relationship. These folks deserve our respect regardless of what your personal relationship is with them, due to the fact they are there as the public's representative and are primarily concerned with life safety issues when they have little time on their schedules.

    We have been remodeling, building and rebuilding code compliant bathrooms, kitchens, and whole houses for over 3 decades and have many long time clients who know us, know our work, and hire us decade after decade. Bottom line, we know how to take care of folks whether it's code compliance folks, design professionals, clients, property managers or just the neighbors. It's not important that we satisfy every internet troll with a computer and a chip on his shoulder. What is important - and our life long repeat clients is all the satisfaction we need - is that we're pro's and know how to get things done right, the first time, and we do it with a smile. :)
     
  20. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Occupation:
    builder
    Location:
    oahu
    I'll add this about Redgard drying & curing. Pay attention to the temperature and the relative humidity *in the room getting Redgard*. This is important and low temps and/or high RH can extend dry/cure times immensely. Here's a shot of the temp & RH when we arrived on the job one of the Redgard days. If you're installing liquids, get one of these temp/RH gauges to help reinforce your estimate on dry times. Don't ask me how I know it's very important to get the dry times correct... :)

    IMG_4838.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
Similar Threads: Redgard tiled
Forum Title Date
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Cultured Marble onto Redgard? Feb 20, 2014
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog RedGard before tiling? Oct 16, 2008
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Water leaking into shower at bottom grout line of tiled wall Apr 9, 2015
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Converting an old Adobe Wall into a new tiled shower wall - How to plan step by step Jun 4, 2013
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Help in selecting a window for a tiled INTERIOR shower wall. Mar 2, 2013

Share This Page