Redgard for tiled shower? Waterproof...

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by worrywell, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. worrywell

    worrywell New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    California
    Hello all,

    How do I waterproof a walk-in shower? I am attempting to waterprrof a walk-in shower that will be tiled on all three walls. The size of the shower will be a standard 60 x 34. Is Redgard a good waterproof sealer for the floor and walls and then tile over it. Is this possible?

    I do not want to use a pan liner, just a liquid waterproofer. The reason is that the home is located in Baja Mexico and liners are practiced yet.

    The subfloor is cement and the shower is located on the second floor. I just installed the 1/2 durolock cement boards for HD on the walls. What is next?

    Thanks!
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    Redgard is a good product, have you read the installation instructions? They are fairly detailed.

    You really do need a sloped bed and a preslope, though for the pan.

    The hardest part of the install is ensuring you have the prescribed thickness without voids or bubbles.

    There are surface applied membranes that work well, too. www.schluter.com makes Kerdi, which may be eaiser in some ways, and is maybe less prone to install errors. Noble makes some that work well, too.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    I would check over with the tile guys at this forum: www.johnbridge.com, to see if redguard by itself is can be the waterproof foundation on walls or floors, in lieu of cement board on walls, and vinyl liner or copper pan on floor.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    REdgard is an approved substance to build the liner of a pan with. Most of the pros prefer Latticrete's version which requires embedding fiberglass reinforcement bands on the corners. The procedure is described on www.custombuildingproducts.com website. Most of the pros don't particularly like it - they prefer a traditional liner, a sheet surface membrane like Kerdi, or to just use the Redgard as a wall, niche, surface waterproofer and do the pan normally. When you are painting/rolling the stuff on, it is really hard to know when you've built up the required thickness so it will work properly. Too thick and you've got stability problems, too thin, and it is just too easy to breech it.
  5. worrywell

    worrywell New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    California
    Question applying Redgard. After I apply the Redgard it to all shower walls and floor, do I have to apply a coat of cement on top of the redgard or can I start tiling with my mortar?

    Thanks!
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    Once the Redgard has dried/cured, it is designed to have the thinset and tile applied directly. Suggest you go to their website and read the installation instructions...you'll want to follow all of the proper steps to make the system waterproof.

    It's been awhile since I read them, but I think they intend the pan liner to be done in a similar manner as if you had used a sheet liner. Double-check...if this is true, there is a preslope, Redgard, then the final setting bed, then the thinset and tile. I'm not sure it is designed for direct placement on the pan for tile. In other words, on the floor (as opposed to the walls), I'm not sure if it is intended to be tiled over directly. Normally, you'd use a clamping drain with weep holes that allow the moisture that gets under the tile and grout to flow down to the waterproof membrane, and out the weep holes.

    The only systems I'm familiar with that have the waterproofing right underneath the tile is Wedi, and Kerdi. There may be others, double-check the installation instructions for Redgard. I loaned my TCNA spec out, and can't look it up, but the www.custombuildingproducts.com website should have their installation instructions on it.
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Custom Building Products - Red Guard for Shower Waterproofing

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    JW
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    John, John, John, this thread is 3-years old...
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Red Guard Data Sheet - Shower Pan Instructions

    Is it? All this time and no new information. Glad I could help out.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  10. Great information. I think that there have been millions of showers built with liquid applied membranes. On the internet, it appears to be quite the opposite. (and that smells fishy.) I am glad that someone who has built more than a handful of showers has posted a few more details.
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Barrier Free flood testing with liquid waterproofing products

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    I'm by no means against a good liquid waterproofing system - they work, and work well. There's a big BUT in there, though. Many first-timers do NOT get the required thickness, and if you aren't careful, you can have a pinhole leak. that's a lot harder with a sheet membrane. And, the stuff is fragile until it is covered and accumulates dirt if it sits very long that's hard to clean off. I just think that there is more redundency with the overlap on a sheet membrane. Now, if you've done many, a good liquid applied membrane is fine, but I'd rather use something other than RedGard, but that would work if you follow the instructions (important for ANY system!) and reliably get the proper thickness with no voids or pinholes.
  13. it's not fair, to point out fine grained details that you have heard or read somewhere. It would be easy for me to build counter arguments that make people doubt the orange sheet membrane. Very easy.
  14. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "...There's a big But in there..."

    LOL
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2011
  15. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  16. Keith the tile guy

    Keith the tile guy New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    DC
    RedGard is a great product when installed properly. It is approved for walls, ceilings, shower pan liners...and yes, even steam
    showers.

    I have been a pro for 25 years and the stuff has not failed me yet...and I have been using it since it first came out.
    IMHO, it is much easier than kerdi and nobleseal.

    I always use mesh tape around the drains and where 2 surfaces meet. It allows you to encapsulate the entire shower from
    the ceiling to the drain. You can brush, roll, and even spray it on ( use a size 25 to 29 tip ) and man it goes on quick.

    It's perm rating is great and test show that when cured, it can stretch 5 1/2x it's size without leaking. Now why wouldn't
    anyone want to use a product like that?

    I often hear tile guys put down Redgard, saying Kerdi this or Noble that...and scratch my head....as it can marry to an adjustable ring drain and is so quick and can carry a Manufacturer's LIFETIME WARRANTY...yeah you read that right.

    Build dozens of tile showers in a new hotel....and tell me that manually applying Kerdi or Noble is quicker than spraying 45 mil
    of Redgard.....cause it aint so.

    My opinion....Worth the price charged
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  18. Ceci

    Ceci New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Chicago
    Hi John,

    I have a question if you don't mind. Would it create a problem if one were to do the preslope, then put in a Oatey pan liner, then the final mudbed, and then redgard the whole thing? Just asking since someone who came out to my house stated he does it that way. Never heard of using both the Oatey pan liner and the redgard over the final mud bed. He would use the redgard over the Hardieboard shower walls also as the way to waterproof them.

    Thanks,
    Ceci
  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    That's not a good idea. If everything was perfect, it might work out. If the weep holes were compromised, you'd end up with moisture trapped between the two layers. If you want a surface membrane, use a surface membrane, either a painted on one or a fabric. Don't try to mix systems. All of the approved methods stick to one means of waterproofing. A surface membrane has advantages - much less to get saturated, quicker drying times, and, therefore, a lower chance of mold. Mold requires three things: moisture, spores (can't really get rid of them), and food. You can minimize food by being meticulous in your cleaning regimen, but few people are - those nooks and crannies are tough to keep squeaky clean.
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,696
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
Similar Threads: Redgard tiled
Forum Title Date
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Cultured Marble onto Redgard? Feb 20, 2014
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog RedGard before tiling? Oct 16, 2008
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Converting an old Adobe Wall into a new tiled shower wall - How to plan step by step Jun 4, 2013
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Help in selecting a window for a tiled INTERIOR shower wall. Mar 2, 2013
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Testing a jacuzzi tub before it's installed and tiled - What to look for and inspect. Aug 18, 2012

Share This Page