Recommended shower install materials??

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by jch, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. jch

    jch New Member

    I'm in western Canada (Victoria), so I'm looking for advice about products available here.

    Been reading the posts about Kerdi here and on John Bridge and I'm getting overwhelmed.... Been to Big Orange and some contractor tile places and the number of choices is staggering!

    For a first-timer like me, specifically what brands would you recommend I use for materials in a simple tiled shower (no niches, but with tiled sloped ceiling, rafters 24" OC)?

    i.e. which brands of:
    • Wallboard,
    • fasteners,
    • tape
    • tape mud,
    • waterproofing,
    • tile-setting thinset (for 12"x4" tiles, plus 1"x2" glass mosaic strip), and
    • grout

    Appreciate any *specific* help you could share. Once I've got specific recommendations, I'll go look up the specific installation instructions on the manufacturers' sites.

    Thanks!
  2. chefwong

    chefwong New Member

    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    District of Columbia
    John -

    It's not the brands but the process...
    Non Shower area - sheetrock treatment is fine.

    Shower - Wet Wall Area - any concrete board of choice , denshield, hardiback

    Some caulk between the joints of CBU.
    I've always just used a alkai resistent tape and thinset

    Don't use drywall mud for the shower area.

    Waterproofing - Look at both liquid and sheet membranes. FWIW, I'm doing my next project with liquid and certain area like the niche, I plan to use sheet and liquid. Maybe overkill but I tend to build solid like a rock. (Carpenter was cursing up a storm when I had him change the RO for a interior door recently that I built out years ago) ......

    Grout and thinset is subjective but Laticrete and Mapei are fine brands I prefer.
    KEY advice. ALWAYS check the date /batch codeof your product. Make sure it's fresh IMO.
    Grout- you ideally want them of the same batch code

    Grout - Epoxy all the way for me. Cost more (labors just the same to me IMHO). Most epoxy grouts have a less than 1% absorption rate.
    If you plan on white, you may NOT want epoxy just due to color

    YMMV. Good luck
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,055
    Location:
    New England
    I prefer a surface membrane, whether a sheet or liquid...it just leaves much less that can get wet in a shower. Whatever you choose, you must use good workmanship. A conventional liner shower will work, too, but surface waterproofing has its advantages. 24" OC ceiling may be a problem...some stuff can handle it, some can't, so read the instructions carefully. You could using strapping and possibly some intermediate supports to narrow that 24" OC if required, but it might lower the ceiling, leaving a step, depending on method used. one person's experience/predjudice should not make your definitive decision for you...lots of people have used and created successful showers with each of the available methods out there...some are easier for the first timer and I have my preferences, but that's one person's opinion, too.
  4. jch

    jch New Member

    So how about if I use 2x6 blocking (with the 6" face against the ceiling) to span those 24" rafters?

    Big Orange only carries a limited number of products, and pro tile shops seem to carry a dizzying array of products.

    That's why I'm asking for specific recommendations for a newbie like myself.

    Thanks!
  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,230
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  6. jch

    jch New Member

    Sorry--should have mentioned that this will be a cast iron built-in tub (Kohler Villager) with shower head...

    If I go to a pro tiling store instead (which is often cheaper than Big Orange), would that change your recommendations? I'm in BC.

    Thanks!
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,230
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  8. Will Rogers Plumbing

    Will Rogers Plumbing Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Moore, Ok
    i.e. which brands of:

    Wallboard, Permabase
    fasteners, Roofing Nails
    tape Fiberglass or stucco mesh
    tape mud, Thinset
    waterproofing, Kerdi with Kerdi Drain or Aquadefense with divot method
    tile-setting thinset (for 12"x4" tiles, plus 1"x2" glass mosaic strip), and
    grout Customs Versabond for thinset, SpectraLock or Truclolor for grout
  9. Will Rogers Plumbing

    Will Rogers Plumbing Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Moore, Ok

    If your just doing a tub surround then permabase walls, thinset and tape your joints and corners with fiberglass mesh tape. Water proof with Aquadefense on the corners and seems. You don't have to go all crazy with the water proofing on a tub surround. I like spectralock expoxy grout, trucolor urethane grout is good too, but less forgiving.
  10. tomcanfixit

    tomcanfixit New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Since this site is no longer recommending Schluter products, what is the recommended higher quality waterproof membrane? Are there other membranes that can be tiled over? I am replacing an improperly installed tile shower (the waterproof membrane on the shower pan had a 1/2" lip leading to the drain, so it never actually drained), and don't want the same problem caused by the concrete shower pan wicking up the water and eventually transferring it to my OSB flooring.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,055
    Location:
    New England
    I think what you'll find is that one individual who has very specific preferences, no longer likes anything Schluter. He had some disagreements with them, and they asked him to be a bit careful about some of his misleading, and in some cases plain wrong feelings. Schluter has been in business in the USA since the 1980's and makes a good product. Their patent on some of the products expired, and in the last year or so, lots of others have started to make similar products, often from a good company, but with little track record on these specific products (for example, one just became available about 2-months ago).

    As has been said, you can achieve a quality, trouble-free shower with most of the products out there. They each have their little quirks, and excel in some areas and may be less stellar in others. The TCNA guidelines (the industry bible on tiling things), has about 30 pages of different methods on how you can build a shower successfully, with different techniques. My preference is a surface membrane, primarily because when done properly, none of the infrastructure ever gets wet. Cut out material that can hold moisture, and you limit or stop the chance of grout/tile color changes that persist, and by taking moisture out of the equation, you cannot support mold or mildew growth.

    Whatever material you choose, understand and follow through using it correctly.

    Schluter built the first bonded flange shower drain, and the TCNA procedure (B422) was written to support it. Now, there are a few companies that make similar drains, each with slightly different characteristics. Schluter happens to ship about 1200 of them a week to the US market...it works, and is designed to work with Kerdi.

    Build your shower properly, following any one of the methods in the TCNA guidelines, and you will have a reliable shower. Once you've chosen your method, you can get more specific help either here, or at www.johnbridge.com. That site has a huge amount of info in their 'Liberry' (sic) you can use as reference. Don't be swayed by one individual, listen to and understand the limitations and ramifications of the manufacture's guidelines. Then make your decision on what product(s) to use.
  12. tomcanfixit

    tomcanfixit New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Thanks for the prompt reply. As you suggest, I'll weigh the different opinions and make a decision soon.
  13. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    Montreal
    Tom , What waterproofing products are you having access to ?

    If you have access to Noble products , I will second that -- one individual --. :)
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,055
    Location:
    New England
    Noble makes good stuff. Noble TS is 30-mils thick. In some situations, that's a good thing...in others, it isn't. Like I said, you can make a good shower out of most all of the materials out there, but they each have their own +/-. learn what they are, then decide if they'll help or hinder your install, use it properly, and you should end up with a reliable shower.
  15. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,230
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    OMG - this ignore feature is awesome. I just ignored Jim (click his profile photo and hit the ignore button) and now I can not see his post above. I know he posted because in the main shower and bathroom post it shows "Ignored Member" as last post.

    Finally.

    I LOVE THIS NEW PLATFORM
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
  16. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ignoring jim does not make jim go away? Although it may help tolerate!

    He still spreads the same crap and mis imformation ( as of late in hyper linked longform )


    Its summer and id bet Jim has a freezer full of oramge Popsicles, do you suppose hes using orange napkins?
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,230
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC

    Counter Balance - just follow suit. Jim craves the attention and even debating him makes it seem like he might know what he is talking about. It would be great if you all block him.

    I wonder if he can not read my posts now and the block is two fold.

    If you do not read his Kerdi troll like posts then they will not bother you like me.

    Let him post away - he is clearly having a hard time here with you other pros posting on Terry's forum. What huge balls he has sending people away from Terry's forum to a forum controlled by retired wanna bee's. I love how he assumes every person online is it a DIYer. Most of my online clients are tile pros and contractors looking for insight. Most of these men work in the real world that have subfloors that are not perfectly level or want to build with products that don;t require cheap non-modifed thin-set.

    Jim tends to think everyone has a level home and believes all the mumble jumble about non-modifed thin-set being equal to modified. What a Orange world he lives in. I bet if someone at Schluter told him he could eat kerdi he would try it. The man is consi=umed with promoting the stuff.

    And what crappy system it is - compared to Ardex or Noble Company's products.
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,055
    Location:
    New England
    Well, in the last 40 threads in this forum, 28/40 were from DIY'ers, 9 were started by John Whipple, and Terry and Redshoecounterbalance had a few to round it out. Seems to me that John likes talking to himself. What happens on HIS website is a totally different environment than here where he solicits money to give his advice.

    I know a lot of pros who use and prefer Schluter's products, but will use others if the situation dictates it. If it was such a crappy system as John indicates, how has it stayed in business for so long (approaching 30-years in the USA, longer in Europe) and grown so big and recently, had a bunch of imitators bring out similar products (after their patent expired)? If it was such a crappy system, why would reputable companies even consider it? John only stopped using Schluter products when they asked him to not misrepresent it or how to use it that was counter to their instructions, years of research, and hundreds of thousands of installations. But, if you are a John proponent, the company that designed, builds, distributes, and warrants the product knows nothing, and John is the god of tile.
  19. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    Montreal
    A reminder of the question ...... higher quality waterproof .... Noble products is the answer .


    The rest is just the usual BS .......DIYer forum ....... followed by a .... let me link you some ........






    I wonder how this sounds on a sub. ;):)
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,230
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    These days I recommend and use only products from Noble Company (set with Ardex or Laticrete) or Ardex 8+9. Schluter's products are fine if you have a perfectly level, perfectly flat lab room to build your shower. Schluter's products are fine if you prefer using lesser grade setting materials. Schluter's products are fine if you like foam based materials for your tile prep and huge monster shower dams.

    I quite using Schluter's materials completely and could not be happier.
Similar Threads: Recommended shower
Forum Title Date
Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog shower -- silicone or caulk recommended? Jun 28, 2010
Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog Recommended Shower Drain for Sterling Ensemble Shower? Sep 28, 2009
Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog Building a Shower Pan - Recommended Mortar Mix? Aug 25, 2008
Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog is it safe to install steam generator that is over recommended power size? Dec 9, 2013
Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog mud pan- question about recommended 2x10 framework Jun 2, 2009

Share This Page