Reasonable, or did I get screwed?

[BuckWheat]

Last Friday, I was in the process of turing off my house water supply while preparing to install some toilets and new valves. Before I got started, my wife needed the water turned back on. Guess what? The darn main valve would turn, but no water.

So, I got a couple estimates and settled on one that would "dig up the water main & install a new ball valve" for $325. The company I was using prides itself for giving up-front pricing.

Well, while I was at my daugther's soccer game, my wife calls and says that the plumber is telling her the job is way more involved than he first thought, and the price to install the valve would now be an additional $700. Since I had no way to verify this over the phone, and since my wife had been without a shower for nearly 48 hours, she decided to let him continue.

When I got home, I was able to see what the plumber was talking about. Instead of a single line going into the house, there were 3 lines (all about 3 inches apart). He claimed that making a manifold to send the water to all 3 lines is what made this an unexpected and difficult add-on. Interestingly, after he dug up and exposed the lines (which was covered in the original quote, the job took only 1 hour to complete.

I may be wrong, but I think that he took advantage of my wife, since she was desparate to get the issue corrected. However, I'm trying to get info to see if I'm being unrealistic.

Here are my questions:

1. Is it all that unusual to have 3 lines going into a house?
2. Is creating the 3 to one manifold all that difficult?
3. Should it have been covered in the original quote?
4. If this is truly an appropriate add-on, what would be a reasonable price to pay?

Thanks for any feedback or advice you can provide.

 

[Cass]

Where was this valve .....are you talking about the curb stop, meter pit or something else?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[BuckWheat]

The valve is outside of my house about 5 feet from the foundation. The city valve in near the curb.

 

[Cass]

Is it a round cover with the meter in it?

How deep did they have to dig?

 

[BuckWheat]

Round cover, no meter. Just a simple round "turn it till it's off" type valve. They probably had to dig 3 feet to expose everything. Also, the "digging" was covered under the original quote. It's the creation of the manifold to attach the other two lines that was deemed add-on.

 

[Cass]

I guess what I don't get is why replacing the old valve wouldn't make the system work and why now did the manafold have to be made and how was it working without it B4.

 

[Cass]

How long did the whole job take and did they use a backhoe or just shovels.

 

[BuckWheat]

Total time was 3 hours. He used a simple hand shovel to expose the valve. He claimed that because everything was so close together, he had to cut the old manifold off to install the new valve.

 

[Cass]

Call back and ask them to explaine how a 3 hour job should cost $1,035.00.

Thats $300.00/hr plus highly inflated parts.

I think the original charge may have been closer to right but when he saw you weren't home up wen't the price.

 

[Cass]

I my NSHO if you paid them $1,035.00 for 3 hrs. labor a ball valve and a few copper fittings and pipe, you got taken to the cleaners.

 

[BuckWheat]

Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to ensure I wasn't missing anything that I should consider in fairness to the plumber

 

[Kordts]

The add-on task shouldn't have been that much. I would call his shop and have them explain the charge and see if they will show you in their book the exact service and add-on, and what they cost.

 

[Cookie]

My 2 cents worth from a fellow female victim---make sure you are home the next time.

 

[Dubldare]

When you play with "Up Front Pricing" ©, expect to get stung. The customer, thinking they have piece of mind in a 'solid', prearranged price (which most likely was quoted over the phone), more often than not ends up spending far more than by using a contractor who goes by time and material.

It's all simple economics. Any up-front price quote for service is going to be above the normal rate for the job. Companies are not in business to lose money. Unless we're talking about competitive jobs which are rather cut and dried (wh & faucet replacements), the above is true. You always will pay the high average for a given task, even if your job is quick and easy.

Another sad fact of our profession is that it is becoming more and more common to pay techs a base wage plus a % commission, or perhaps a regular wage with 20% of sales over ~$3000 in a week. This is where the tech is paid more by your pocketbook opening wider. In such a scenario, rebuilding a shower faucet may be a $150 job, whereas a shower faucet replacement may be a $450+ job; which job is he going to sell on? He'll do his job at saying "This faucet isn't repairable" or "Most of the time they break" or "We don't guarantee faucet rebuilds" or "We'd have to order parts, and that could take days". While some of that may be true for a small amount of repairs, it is becoming more and more the norm. Meanwhile our profession goes the way of the "Pre-Owned" © car salesman.

I feel for the t&m guys that are left. The labor rate on the invoice keeps getting bigger, while material mark-up is getting to be non-existant (since every customer can go to the local bigbox and see what the 'lowest end' materials cost). It used to be that material sales carried a portion of the labor and overhead, not any more.

From a consumer's standpoint, I prefer t&m. If my equipment is in poor state of repair or odd, I expect to be charged more; If I take care of my stuff and repairs are more simplistic, my pocketbook should feel heavier. It behooves me to take care of my stuff.

From a professional's standpoint, I prefer t&m. An honest day's work for an honest day's pay is all I ask. It behooves me to have a clear conscience and to sleep well at night.


Now, BuckWheat, when were your repairs done? You state you started this on a Friday, that your wife hadn't showered in 48 hours and you were at your daughter's soccer game when the repairs were made. Be aware that overtime charges can start on friday afternoons and go up from there through the weekend. It matters not if a plumber is running a georgia backhoe or fixing a pipe, it all pays the same. Sometimes, it may take a day day to 'get' to a problem, and only a few minutes to fix.

Now, in my neck of the woods, branching off a water service can only occur indoors, same with drain lines. But then, we keep our meters inside so they don't freeze.

What we have in your situation is sticker shock. A quote was given as a base, when that was seen to be insufficient for the job, another quote was given. It sounds as if both quotes were accepted and the work was performed as to. Now, in retrospect, it seems to much.

Yes, +$1k is alot of money, and someone else may have done it cheaper, but after the fact is not time to reverse it. Chalk it up to live and learn. I have billed out $195/hr for myself on sundays, and that is a known fact to all I work for at such times. The clock starts when I lace up my boots until they come back off. For new customers, I don't put those boots on w/out a CC#.

I hate to see people get taken advantage of. Without seeing and knowing more of your situation, I cannot say if such a charge was warranted, and neither can anyone else.

Now, as far as female victims go. I think that I watch my p's and q's much more around women than I do with men. Women always tend to think that they're getting the shaft when they're getting the goldmine.

 

[Cass]

Hmmmm....you can't tell that a 3 Hr job on a friday with maybe $35.00 in parts and being charged $1.000.00 labor is not to high.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

plumbers working on comission

thanks to the plumbers in our town wanting
1300 to install a 40 gal gas water heater we are very , very busy... at 700

most of these guys work on that "commission" basis
which is basically just a liscense to steal from everyone...

go out to a house ---start a job ---then cry foul ----
and state that due to unfor-seen issues its gonna be 300 more....


these fellows sell their souls to the devil (their boss)
and then they steal for their boss too with the promise of 30%--50% comission....

and they usually end up getting fired by the boss when someone finally complians loud enough....


soneones got to take the fall....


and the devil always takes care of #1 first

so to keep his company name clean ...
the employee gets the blame and gets fired.


you got screwed a little bit and if you piss and moan
you might get someting back from the owner...

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Customers every day make solid, planned decisions when purchasing services from service providers.

Someone said "YES" to the exuberant charge. If it wasn't you.....you need to take it up with the wifey because the plumber couldn't of charged that if someone said NO.

 

[hj]

price

Usually they give a "before hand" price and then stick to it, figuring for every job they lose money on, they have done a dozen where they overcharged. That is their selling point for prepricing, namely, that you know beforehand what the job is going to run. The ones who intend to mark it up, usually specify that it has to be a "normal job", like the Home Depot water heaters, that seldom turn out to be "normal jobs" and often require additional, and expensive, upgrades to the quotation.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

like the Home Depot water heaters, that seldom turn out to be "normal jobs" and often require additional, and expensive, upgrades to the quotation.

New 3/4" shutoff valve $48

Drip Leg off of T&P $40

New Main Shutoff $130

Flue Pipe Replacement $14/running foot

Water Line Replacement (per foot) $6

PRV $146

Expansion Tank $98

Gas Line Rework $66

Gas Valve Replacement $54


Those guys at HD would be pissed if they knew I posted their rates on water heater installs.......at least you know what you're getting into when you go after that $159 install........PLUS $45 permit fee.

And if the heater has to go in a pan or on a stand?

Get a loan....you'll need it.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

thats cute Rugged

40 bucks for a drip leg off the T+P valve.....


now thats what I call

bending them over and telling them to squeal like a pig



where did you find this information on HD...???

I would like to post that on the front page of my web site....