Ready to get a new softener

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by SemiHandyRon, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    I report--success! After several delays, I finally got it installed strictly DIY. Two people at work advised me to go the SharkBite route, but I decided to go the solder route instead so I watched all the YouTube videos I could on how to solder copper pipe. Being a first timer, the soldering was a little sloppy and excessive. In retrospect, perhaps I should have gone the SharkBite route.

    But now I have a question: how fast should the brine water be moving through the tube during the Brine Draw segment of regeneration? I ask because I notice that the brine water seems to be moving quite slowly. I can see the speed because there are large segments of air interspersed in the brine water in the tube. That, of course, raises a second question: should there be air in that tube?

    Attached Files:

  2. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,066
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    There should only be large air bubbles in the brine tube at the tail end when the brine level has drawn down. It sounds like you have an air leak. Aside from that, the bine does move slowly.
  3. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    Air leak--hmmm. Any advice on how to track it down and fix?
  4. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,066
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Where the line goes through the side of the brine tank, I assume there is a fitting with a 90 degree elbow. One side or the other of that elbow is where I would expect the air to be leaking in. It is the only place there is a fitting that is above the water line where you can see bubbles. Try putting a few drops of water on the fitting to see where it gets sucked in. Soap bubbles might work too.
  5. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,487
    Location:
    Alaska
    There was a service paper awhile back from a company that I deal with talking about how the nut on the brine line that screws onto the float assembly there in the brine tank like to back off and that one should maybe use a small pair of channel locks to tighten it past hand tight .
    Then there is the other nut that is on the pick up line from the bottom of the brine tank, it might need to be tightened.
    Never take it that because it is from the factory all the fittings are tight like they should be.
  6. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    Well...there were no factory tightenings on these. The thing came as a four-box kit, and I attached both ends of the brine line according to directions (compression bushing correctly positioned, nut tightened slightly past hand-tight, etc.). Maybe I'll need to use some teflon tape, pipe dope for plastic fittings (if there is such a thing), etc.
  7. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,487
    Location:
    Alaska
    There is no need for the teflon tape or any of the other like items..

    You might tighten the nut some more..

    Going on to the tube in order
    Nut
    the item that looks broke... and the thin end goes on first so that it is pointing to the nut, it will slide in between tube and the hole withing the nut.
    Then the other ring, that has two parts all in one, the right to the nut, then the sleeve pointing to the end of the tube then the insert either plastic or brass...
    Then pushed into the elbow at the top of the assembly and tight........
  8. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    I think I followed the directions correctly, but will reevaluate. Thanks. Those little brass plugs are supposed to be removed, right?

    Attached Files:

  9. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    Arrgh! I see what I did wrong: I removed those little open-ended brass sleeves, mistakenly thinking they were closed-end plugs. I just found where I had cast them aside, so can reinstall today. That's what I get for doing this part while fatigued.
  10. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,066
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Yes, those brass sleeves prevent the plastic line from deforming so that the compression fitting can seal.
  11. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    Running a manual regeneration now. No air bubbles noted in Brine Draw tube. All is well! Thanks much.
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The instructions to install the black and white parts are wrong. And both parts can be white or black; it is their shape and then the order that they go on the brine line that counts.

    The nut goes on the brine line first with the threads toward the end of the brine line, then the white fitting so the thickest (flat) end is toward the end of the brine line and then the thick end of the black split ring ferrule so the sharp pointy end is toward the end of the brine line so it fits inside the tapper inside of the elbow, as you tighten the nut.
  13. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    I'm stunned...and annoyed! Thanks, Gary!!
  14. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,487
    Location:
    Alaska
    So who is correct?

    The photo that shows the nut, the black then the white with the tube insert?

    Or is the photo backwards? nut then white and then black with the tube insert?

    Think that we should start a poll to find out what others have done with this set up to see what works and what has not worked ....

    I say that the photo lay out is correct.
  15. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,066
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    The air leak stopped. Can't argue with results. I rest my case.
  16. JKERN

    JKERN New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Artesia NM
    The photo layout is the only way I've ever done it ot seen it done. The split in the ferrule would contradict giving a tight water proof seal don't you think?
  17. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    There is indeed a split in the ferrule. Although it seems logical that the tapered end would go in first, does this split allow air leakage? I suppose I could hot-foot it down to Home Depot and buy a couple without a split.

    Attached Files:

  18. JKERN

    JKERN New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Artesia NM
    I would put it on like it says and go a little over hand tight and you should be fine. The only time I've ever had any trouble with these connections was when someone did not tighten them enough. Just do it like that picture showed tighten and call it good you should be ok.
  19. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Sorry for the confusion (I was wrong). I saw the brass nut in the picture and brass nuts used a different ferrule, pointed on both ends with no split and no 'white' fitting but, that was for the old 2300 (brass) brine valve, not for the new 2310 (plastic) valve. Then I got turned around and questioned myself but didn't go look it up and said the order and direction was wrong.

    Since it is a Fleck design, below is a Fleck picture. Notice there are two pairs of these fittings, one for the brine line connection and one on the bottom of the 2310 valve on the brine pickup tube that goes to the bottom of the tank.

    The split in the ferrule is so the ferrule can compress into the taper of the nut. BTW, I've never seen the ferrule you posted a picture of and I can't see the diagonal split.

    2310 valve DIA.jpg
  20. SemiHandyRon

    SemiHandyRon New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Fairfield, OH
    Many thanks for the due diligence!
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