Questions about air in supply lines and deep well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by jeff_bathroom, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    I'm in central FL and have a pipe coming through the wellhead, so I guess I don't have one. Thanks.
  2. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    US Gauge Type WJ - AVC

    I'll see if I can find a different contractor to replace it.
    I am also wondering how long before I will really know whether
    this will fix the problem. I suppose I could or should wait until the
    air in the lines is noticeable again so that I know about how long
    to wait before claiming victory or proceeding with the next round of debugging.

    Thanks guys. I'll let you now how it turns out.
  3. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    989
    Location:
    ct
    If you don't hear air escaping from the AVC when the pump is running, then it isn't working correctly
  4. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,250
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    The AVC with the float has a plastic body, so to replace it, rust should not be much of an issue unless the tank is in really bad shape.
  5. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    There's an adjustment screw on it. Could I turn it counter clockwise to lower the required pressure and force it to hiss?
    I don't recall ever hearing that sound but I was also never listening for it.
  6. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks. I've called another Well Company and a plumber to compare prices.
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,081
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I don't know how you can discern that with such a fuzzy picture. They do also make them out of metal.
  8. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    anyone know how to troubleshoot the AVC valve?

    Editing this ...
    Please ignore this question since Craigpump answered it above. Thanks Craigpump!


    Wondering if this is a way to check if it's working ? Any other suggestions? I don't know how long
    I would normally have to wait to hear it work.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  9. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    What if the screw is just set too much clockwise?
    From this thread - http://www.****.com/forum/read.php?1,194194
    "You are correct, if you still get air in the water you can loosen the screw a small amount to allow it to start venting air at a lower psi which will allow more air out."
  10. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    I turned the adjustment screw 1/2 turn to the left and ran the water at the spigot right at the tank. The
    pump kicked on but I couldn't hear any hiss from that valve. I turned off the water and still could hear nothing.
    I turned the screw another 1/2 turn to the left, same thing...nothing. I put my fingers around the unit and
    couldn't feel any air being released. I then felt the tank itself and it was cold up to about a foot above where
    the AVC is screwed in. Then it got noticeably warmer above that. I would have thought that water should not
    go above where the AVC is screwed in. Can anyone confirm that?
    It appears I do need to order a new AVC however, the original apparently is no longer made - US Gauge Type WJ .
    I have seen some like Ametek who makes a WJ model. Are there different models that handle pressure differently?
    One WJ valve says it handles a range of 15 to 40 psi. My tank gauge reads between 50 and 60.
  11. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    989
    Location:
    ct
    We use the aluminum Amtek right out of the box with no adjustments, and no problems either.
  12. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,081
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I'm guessing then that you drained the system and in so doing expelled all excess air. The water level in the tank is now higher than what the AVC would limit it to if it were working. Only a small amount of air is added to the tank on each pump cycle so it could be months before there is too much air in the tank. It all depends on how the air maker is setup, how big the tank is, and how often the pump cycles.

    There are probably millions of people that have non-functioning AVCs and all they do is to drain the system a few times a year and have been doing it that way for decades.
  13. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    Actually I didn't drain the system; the well technician did. I understand that's a good idea for getting the crud out of the bottom every few years.
    Should he have re-pressurized the system? I was reading this article about that - http://inspectapedia.com/water/WaterTankAir3.htm "How to Add Air to a Water Pressure Tank by Draining Using Gravity & a Garden Hose "

    I think I also understand that if I replace the AVC valve, that will in effect add the air back in.
    Also, I finally found an original US Gauge AVC - http://www.****.com/itm/US-GAGE-AIR...d=100011&prg=9536&rk=2&rkt=10&sd=201036880904

    I guess I'll go ahead and buy that and do the work myself. It appears that the well drillers near me won't do small jobs
    and a local plumber didn't want to touch it either.
  14. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    Ordered the Ametek

    Ordered this one off **** for $47+tax. I like that it also came with the pressure gauge. Ametek direct sales wanted $89 for the valve and $10 for the gauge.

    http://www.****.com/itm/New-AMETEK-...L-JET-PUMPS-With-Pressure-Gauge-/170980362494

    Previewing this and find that the url is *** out. Curious. Anyway if you google for that part "148540A" it will come right up.

    Jeff
  15. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,522
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The AVC only lets the excess air out. The bleeder orifice down the well working in conjunction with the check valve at the tank causes air to be let in through the Schrader valve.
  16. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    My tank doesn't have a bladder, so I don't think I have a Schrader valve. I see your point though. Air for my tank would get added in via bleeder/snifter arrangement I think.
  17. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,522
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The Schrader valve should be on the inlet side of the check valve, prior to the pressure tank.
  18. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    I don't think I have a check valve there either.
    I think the only check valve I have is at the pump itself. This is an old galvanized pneumatic tank.
    See some of the earlier photos.
  19. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,081
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    If that is the only check, then the system would always be under pressure in which case the only way air could enter the system is through the pump intake.

    None the less, if the tank is accumulating air and the AVC not maintaining the amount of air, then the air will eventually exit the tank into the home on the bottom of the cycle.
  20. jeff_bathroom

    jeff_bathroom Member

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Florida
    See Craigpump's comments:
    "You may have a bleeder plug in the drop pipe someplace which is sucking air through an uncapped snifter valve. If the AVC isn't working properly, your tank will eventually become air bound and blow air out through the faucets."

    I have read that the combination bleeder/snifter in the pipes themselves suck in air for this kind of configuration; not down at the pump itself.
    So, based on what I've read and Craigpump's comments, I don't think this statement holds water - "the only way air could enter the system is through the pump intake."

    See this video around 1 minute and 27 seconds. It explains the bleeder.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlkKHkUYGg
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
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