quartz infrared heaters?

Discussion in 'HVAC Heating & Cooling' started by jimbo, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Location:
    San Diego
    Anyone have any experience with the Edenpure room heaters? They apparently use convection, and a quarts halogen infrared heating source.


    We have been using oil filled electric radiators as our only heat. Southern California, so it is not that cold. We have a small gas forced air unit in our small condo, but it seems overkill, and is noisy,so we don't use it at all.

    The radiators do a nice job, but you need to keep them on a while to develop even heat throughout the room. Just wondering if the Edenpure are a little faster or more even, to justify the significantly higher cost. The radiators, which of course we already have, would be about $65 today, and the Edenpure is $297 to $397, depending on model.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2010
  2. Furd

    Furd Engineer

    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    Wet side of Washington State
    Is this the one that they advertise on late-night infomercials and half-page magazine ads? The one that says it can replace your central heat furnace?

    ALL electric heaters put out 3,413 BTUs per kilowatt of electrical consumption.

    Infrared transmission of heat is by radiation, not convection. Convection is heating by warming the air and then having the air warm the room and its contents. Radiation warms the room contents directly.

    If the Edenpure is the one I am thinking of it is pure advertising hype.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    I am concerned that there is too much hype, and probably I shoud know better. I do understand that a 120 volt 15 amp circuit only gets you so many watts of heat. I was just wondering about the relative performance, compared to the radiator type. Neither the edenpure or the radiators uses a fan. The edenpure indicates that the quartz infrared lamps heat a copper tube heat exchanger, and then natural circulation carries the heat into the room.
  4. too hypey. "quartz" crap, halogen (huh?) and infrared all mixed in with convection-radiation-convector-radiator and heat exchanger, this is smoke and mirrors; they are pulling the wool over your eyes.

    A toaster is a toaster is a toaster.

    A heating source is a heating source .... is a heating source.

    An oven is an oven is an oven.

    A source supplying heat to "radiators" that are convectors, and to convectors that are radiators, is still a source of heat.

    A source is a source is a source.


    To get comfort, you need to insulate in order to prevent heat loss (or gain in summer), and you need to have heat applied so as to keep a flat gradient, i.e. not have cold corners while other parts of the house are warm. Put a heated fish tank in the coldest corner, and the whole room's heat distribution pattern changes dramatically because the warmth in the room is not all being lost to one side of the room. Put a self-regulating electric kettle plugged in at that corner, and the same result occurs. A boiling kettle that turns itself on and off from time to time looks odd, but does the job. Put your computers and modem in a cold corner and you get the same result. They make heat too.



    david
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Location:
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    OK, you guys have rescued me from my temporary brain-damaged condition where I was condsidering the snake oil!! We will continue with the radiators, becasue that is all the heat we need, and we prefer them to the FAU, even though they do cost a little more than gas to run. My total gas/electric bill in spring/fall ( no heat, no A/C) runs about $60. In a hot summer month with the A/C, it might be $125, and a cold winter month using the elecric heat, about $110.
  6. Handyman2005

    Handyman2005 New Member

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    1
    I really have to take issue with these answers to this question.

    The idea of using electricity to heat a wire to heat oil then expect the heat to be radiated from these oil heaters is really stretching efficiency to the limit.
    The "EdenPure" heaters are very efficient because they only heat the element of the infrared bulb. That heat energy is absorbed by the copper tubing then by natural convection, the heat is released into the air.
    I agree that the heat may be spotty but even a small 12 volt computer cooling fan can drastically correct that problem.
    I used one of those "oil" heaters last January for one entire month to supplement my oil fired furnace heat. My electric bill was over $150 !!!!!!
    Normally my electric bill is about $35. (I live in New York State so I pay a premium for heat).
    The idea of infrared heat transference is not a new one. What do you think causes heat from Solar sources? I would rather have a 100- 250 watt infrared lamp running a few hours a day rather than have a heating element drawing 1500 watts running and also have better efficiency.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Cave Creek, Arizona
    heat

    What is different between using a filament to heat oil and convect it into the room, or heating copper tubing using a filament and doing the same thing? Radiant heats things directly, while convection depends on air currents to carry the heat to you. A small heat source will need some "boost" to transfer the convected heat before it loses its heat naturally.
  8. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

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    584
    Location:
    MN, USA
    Resistive heating will produce the same number of BTU's per watt regardless of the temperature that the element is at. This is why it does not matter if you use the element to heat oil or heat bricks to 2000F.

    The BTU's will eventually get to the room.

    There is one area where these things do help and that is where you don't want to heat the room, but just the people for a short amount of time.

    For example: The room is kept at 60F and is only occupied for 3 hours per day. In this case the radiant heat makes the room feel warmer during the time it's on while the lower average temperature reduces costs.

    BUT... Everything in the room will be cold to the touch and it won't help with rooms that are occupied for long periods of time. (like bedrooms)

    One other reason I don't like these things is that it's going in the wrong direction. We need our houses to be able to stay warm and not use large amounts of electricity when the price is $0.40 per kWh.

    Remember that TOU(Time Of Use) electricity meters will be necessary for the whole solar/wind and electric car plan to work.

    So remember the goal "Ground source heat pumps" :D

    Edit: Also remember that the old fashion heat lamps are just as effective as these heaters and a lot less expensive.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  9. All true. Reasons to insulate and make buildings more airtight. For now, wherever there is a cold wall is a good place to start.
    -David
  10. moreheaters

    moreheaters DIY Junior Member

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    1
    Location:
    Japan
    Yes absolutely agree with your opinion dude, we should better to consider about the wall and roof insulation to get the best performance of the heating unit.


    ___________
    Moreheaters
  11. Ozarks

    Ozarks New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Beautiful Southwest Missouri
    Disclosure: I work with a company that sells infrared heaters somehwat similar to Edenpure. However, the following statements are based on my own personal experience.

    I realize this is an ancient thread, but I'd like to add some balancing information for reference if I might.

    This statement sums up the usual argument against infrared heaters - and, on the face of it, seems absolutely true. 1500W run through a resistive coil will always produce the same number of BTU's. So, an infrared heater shouldn't keep you any warmer than a $30 metal quartz heater from Wal-Mart - in theory. In practice however - in my own personal experience - it's a different story.

    The advantage of infrared heating is not in the amount of heat it puts out - it's in the way that heat is distributed. I'm not talking so much about radiant vs. convection heat, because it's actually hard to see how any radiant heat, which is line-of-sight, could make it out of the almost totally enclosed wood cabinet around the heater. I'm talking about distribution floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall.

    The BTU's on a standard quartz heater are generally wasted on barbecuing two spots - the floor directly in front of the heater, and the ceiling directly above that area. The rest of the room gets very little heat. You could run such a heater all day in a large room without ever noticing it was on, unless you happened to stand right in front of it. An infrared heater, by contrast, heats the whole room atmosphere evenly. Run it for a few minutes in a large room, and people on a couch ten feet away will start throwing off blankets. Run it for a few minutes in a small room and someone will probably want to turn it off because the room will get too warm.

    Given the way infrared heaters are often marketed, no one can be blamed for smelling "snake oil" - which is a pity, because the real benefits of enclosed infrared are substantial, and do include some potential for energy savings. Those savings don't magically appear when you turn on your new heater, of course - they come when you use that heater to warm up a perenniel cold spot, and suddenly find that you don't have to keep the whole-house thermostat up as high as you used to.

    An infrared heater isn't magic, and it isn't right for every situation - but based on my own experience, it beats a standard heater of the same wattage by miles and miles.

    Hope this information helps someone who may happen to run across this thread.
  12. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Location:
    northfork, california
    Why has'nt anyone thought about life of the element? THAT is the only cost comparison of value.

    ANY Chinese quartz element meant for light or heat has of late, the lifespan of a good piece of chewing gum. GARBAGE.

    Buy the DELONGHI, with a standard water heater type element, and the oil will leak long before the element fries out.

    And you can roll it down the stairs and it still works, try that with the quartz flash bulbs.

    Beter yet, get a few bathroom strip lights and put 15x100 watt bulbs in it. Free light with your heat.

    Don't Support those fake amish "craftsman" - Buy a real Amish piece of work -a nice chair from the Lehmans catalog.

    http://www.lehmans.com/store/USA_Made___Furniture___Pennsylvania_Amish_Rocker___44256?Args=

    This is the proof we need not take our factories to China. Best damn chair EVER made.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
    New England
    My sister had a house with radiant panels in the ceiling. The air temp in the house was cool, but it was comfortable as the IR energy penetrated objects rather than heating the air (think the sun's radiant energy going through the vacuum of space). So, IR, done right, does work. You want a large surface area, but the surface temp doesn't need to be really high.

    My gas barbeque grill uses IR. The burner is entirely covered by a glass panel, similar material to a smooth cooktop so there's no flame under the food. In fact, they show melting chocolate on low on a paper plate to demonstrate the flexibility of it. Very even, and it cooks things MUCH faster than a conventional grill. Their original design's patent ran out, and others now are copying it. Their new burner works even better. They do a lot of commercial restaurant equipment, but have a few residential units. Check out www.tecinfrared.com if you're interested. I have no association to them other than the fact I bought one of their units.
  14. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    There are NO quartz tubes in those ceiling panels, and if it were possible, they were'nt from China.

    They are resistance wires, like gutter heaters and inside the delonghi heater. And they should have been put on the FLOOR, where you need the heat on your feet, not 7/8 out of the house, heating your head top. Old, upside down technology.

    Just opened up my "infrared" kenmore glass top range at a rental. Nothing but a nice coil heater [resistance wire] wrapped on a ceramic frame. So its a standard coil top range with a piece of glass over it. Make the coils overheat and burn up right on schedule.

    So much for "Infrared"

    4] 250 watt brooder bulbs make a damn good infrared heater. Except most of the bulbs are from china now and my friend just had 20 baby chicks die thanks to Chinese quality control and sabotage of our Industry.

    My brooder has a delonghi heater UNDER the mesh floor and those are some safe and happy birds. And one dirty heater.
  15. imeot

    imeot New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Slovakia
    The EdenPURE is just yet another 1,500 Watts infrared heater. I believe the price is because it combines a space heater with air purifier, two in one. It won't deliver any more heat than other 1,500 Watts powered heaters around. If you ask me it doesn't worth its price just as a heater, and seems like I'm not alone with this view, this EdenPURE review says the same.
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Location:
    northfork, california
    Buy the oil radiator for $39 and build a nice "amish" box around it. Now you have a snakeoil edenpure.
  17. imeot

    imeot New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Slovakia
    Unfortunately this is not the case. EdenPure is an infrared heater, and they deliver radiative heat, unlike he oil-filled heaters which transfer the heating by convection. There are great differences in recommended usage scenario (like radiant heaters are suitable outdoors, convection heaters arent). Oil vs Infrared space heater comparison will point out even more differences between those two heater types which might be important to know when deciding for a heater.
  18. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Location:
    San Diego
    WELL,, I started this post almost 5 years ago!! I appreciate all the input about the comparisons, pros/cons, etc, '
    For the record, I am still using the oil filled radiator. As far as efficiency, there is more mass there, and even after the temp. control turns off the power, that unit continues to release its stored heat into the room by convection.

    Rates are up, and we had a cold December, and I like toasty cozy, so my last gas/electric bill is $175. About $160 of that is the electric.


    Happy new year all. We can revisit this in 5 more years!
Similar Threads: quartz infrared
Forum Title Date
HVAC Heating & Cooling Anyone in the know about infrared/quartz heat? Feb 8, 2007

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