Purolite c100e

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Matt Williams

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sorry if this has been covered.
1st, some say don't add 3 or 5 for iron in soluble form.....? If not I have 9gpg total, 6 being iron. If so, I have 33 total gpg or 564 hardness.
Blfc.5/1.5 .


12x54 with fleck 2510 w/meter 44K capacity. New purolite c100e resin. Iron fighter salt, and rescare.
Usage is between 200-1000 gallons per day. Flow is 10gpm.

Please need regeneration recommendations.

I'm leaning towards
8 min BW
Draw 9 lbs....slow rinse 40-50 min

6 minute rapid
6 minute refill - 3 gallons - 9 pounds.

Thoughts please. Thank you.
 

ditttohead

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Are you using a softener for 3-5 ppm of iron?
This is doable but certainly not recommended.
BW, up to you but 8 should be fine.
Draw is 3-4 times the draw time, typical is 50-70 minutes. Any less and the brine is going to fast, longer is fine, just gets annoying past 80-100 minutes but certainly not a problem.
RR 6 minutes is fine.
Refill, since you are using your system for iron reduction (not a good application) you should be doing a high salt, typical is 8-10 pounds minimum per ft3. Lower levels will likely lead to even worse resin fouling than you will get now.

Final thought, invest in a properly designed system for your high iron levels, just because a softener can do the job certainly does not mean it is the right way to do the job. It is highly inefficient and this is one of the reason that softeners are being banned, extremely inefficient and wasteful salt usage...
 

Matt Williams

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Thank you. Agree with all. I 'inherited' an old, complex, dis functional, dirty, system. I'm in the sticks of NC with 1 knowledgable (maybe) well specialist. Who likes to make $$$$ off the uninformed. It's tough going....
I also hit outgoing water with Aquamag, blended phosphate....miracle stuff.
Question....50-70 minutes draw.....10ft salt...how much salt is that? 25 lbs?
 

ditttohead

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Opinion only...

12x52 holds 2 CF of resin, using it for Compensated 30 grains (Iron) and 9 Grains hardness= est. 40 GPG

Use 8 pounds minimum per cu. ft, higher will reduce iron fouling.. what is your pH? Lower pH will reduce iron fouling, higher pH... good luck.

1200 gallons - daily reserve (people x 60)

How are you injecting the aqua mag?

The amount of salt is determined by the refill only, not the draw cycle.

Hope this helps
 

Matt Williams

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Thank you. My next question was how many gpg to add for iron. I've read 5, 3,1, and my service company said 2. You added 5 making my 6ppm iron 30. My total gpg is 9, so plus 3 making 33 total.
Ph is 6, low.

Regenerated today. Followed your previous recommendations. BW 6 min.
Draw 30 minutes/slow rinse 30 (60 total). No salt taste. Rapid Rinse 6min.
Refilled 15 min or 7.5 gallons.
Which is 22lbs of salt. A lot I know, a waste.
I'm set to regenerate at 1500 gallons now..........

If 33 gpg I believe my capacity is 44000 and 1300 gallons when using 20lbs of salt.
1000 gallons if using 10lbs salt.
True/false/thoughts.....?

1ppm Aquamag solution stenner pumped after softener.
I'm working on gravity or syphon feed......but that's tough against pressure.

Thanks again
 

ditttohead

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Use the Stenner, works, simple and reliable.

The amount to compensate for iron is an old debate. Many companies prefer very low as it can lead to regular resin replacement but it also allows the system to be more efficient. Regardless, you should consider putting in an iron reduction system ahead of the softener. At the low settings you will likely bypass quite a bit of iron and you will likely foul the resin very quickly and you will need to chemically strip the resin regularly.

I am not understating the math.

30 (compensated for iron) = 9 actual = 39, not 33.

Again, you can set it however you like with the understanding that by using a softener for iron reduction you will have regular problems and maintenance. Higher salting will reduce these problems at the cost of efficiency.
 

Matt Williams

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Thank you. GPG total if iron was 1 is 9. My iron is 6 making iron 30. Still have 3 left over making 33......?
I need high settings, Don't really want them, but.......

By chemically strip do you mean Rescare? It's added (dripping) into brine automatically.
 

Reach4

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If not I have 9gpg total, 6 being iron.
It looked like you were saying 9 grains of hardness plus 6 ppm iron, which gives 9+(5*6)=39. Later you explain base hardness is 6, so 6+(5*6)=36

Usage is between 200-1000 gallons per day.
You are only going to be able to process 1000 gallons between regenerations. So if your reserve is 1000, you will regen every night. If you knew when the 1000 gallon days would happen, you could set a lesser reserve, but you would have to manually schedule an early regen when you know a 1000 gallon day is coming.

That Katalox Light based iron filter is what you need. Then your compensated hardness drops way down. How many GPM can you provide for backwashing?
 

ditttohead

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KL would be good but... the low pH may be problematic. I would recommend at minimum air injection ahead of the KL system just in case. The obvious choice would be pH and or pH correction ahead of the KL system but this is a little more costly.
The chemical drip systems are good for very low levels of iron. Considering your low pH anyway, you may be ok as long as you high salt.

Definitely consider a iron reduction system ahead of your softener.

1000 GPD? Thats a bit high especially considering how inefficient this design is to begin with. Why the 1000? Are you using the unit for irrigation?
 

Matt Williams

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Thanks again. Iron is 6gpg. Total gpg is 9. 6gpg iron plus 3 extra. 33. I think. 10gpm backwash.
This is a small campground.
My timer has a meter and I can set easily. Watching a 2 hr regeneration yesterday was fun.......Will continue testing today,and watching the meter creep.
I have no interest in precipitating iron......like the system originally was.....what a mess, costly, high maintenance, etc....I'm all for ion exchange at this point.
Thank,you

Na for Fe and phosphate sequestering.
 

Reach4

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Iron is 6gpg. Total gpg is 9. 6gpg iron plus 3 extra. 33. I think. 10gpm backwash.
Iron is not measured in grains per gallon. It is measured in ppm or mg/l. There are 17.1 ppm in a grain. I point that out that your calculation that comes up with 33 is not on track. I still don't know how you are coming up with 33, but 33 and 36 are not so far apart.

Iron is not handled as efficiently as calcium and magnesium by softeners. An iron filter with KL comes with a bonus of also treating H2S ("sulfur"), arsenic, and several other thinks. An iron filter takes more GPM to backwash than a softener does.

The next time you buy a softener, consider a twin tank unit. One takes over while the other regenerates.
 

Matt Williams

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Thank you. I have 6ppm (x 5) iron or 30 ppm or iron hardness of 513, correct? .
I also have 3ppm additional hardness, not iron. Total of 9 I thought. But not 9 gpg.....The 6ppl iron (x 5) is 30. Plus the additional 3.....??
 

Bannerman

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I have 6ppm (x 5) iron or 30 ppm or iron hardness of 513, correct? .
No! 6 ppm of iron equates to consuming 30 GRAINS of softener capacity per 1 gallon of water
Your 3 grains of hardness is 3 grains of hardness per 1 gallon of water.
Together, the iron and hardness will consume 33 grains of softener capacity per 1 gallon of water.

Your current 44,000 grain setting / 33 gpg = 1,333 potential gallons delivered between regeneration cycles (minus reserve capacity).

A softener is not an efficient method to reduce iron, particularly large quantities. The softener resin will require frequent cleaning with acid based cleaners and regeneration will need to be frequent and will require large volumes of salt.

Katalox Light has become the iron removal media of choice. Often, the media will be very effective on its own but sometimes, an oxidant such as hydrogen peroxide or chlorine is also required.
 
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ditttohead

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6 ppm = 513... not exactly an efficient use of salt. This is why salt based softeners are banned in so many areas. This is highly wasteful. A KL system, possibly air injection or h2o2 injection... a contact tank... yes you will have some precipitation to deal with but is this any worse than dealing with 50 pound bags of salt, chemical stripping, etc that using the softener requires?

Disclaimer, a salt based softener used for iron reduction is simply a guessing game and is based on estimations. The compensated hardness numbers vary wildly by different companies and this is usually due to local companies better understanding of the exact application based on local water conditions. Without having intimate knowledge of a local water supply the advice given on a forum like this can only be estimated based on industry accepted standards.
 

Matt Williams

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T
6 ppm = 513... not exactly an efficient use of salt. This is why salt based softeners are banned in so many areas. This is highly wasteful. A KL system, possibly air injection or h2o2 injection... a contact tank... yes you will have some precipitation to deal with but is this any worse than dealing with 50 pound bags of salt, chemical stripping, etc that using the softener requires?

Disclaimer, a salt based softener used for iron reduction is simply a guessing game and is based on estimations. The compensated hardness numbers vary wildly by different companies and this is usually due to local companies better understanding of the exact application based on local water conditions. Without having intimate knowledge of a local water supply the advice given on a forum like this can only be estimated based on industry accepted standards.
Thank you.
After water testing, the hardness and iron levers previously mentioned are accurate.

Regenerated today at the previously indicated settings.
After brine draw (30 minutes), but still during slow rinse (30 minutes), the discharge was salty after only 15 minutes (of the slow rinse). The 1st 15 minutes of rinsing
Which seems to indicate the resin was 'full' so the slow rinse was rinsing salty water. Which seems i drew too much. But it's refilled 3 days ago with 7 gallons, 14 minutes, 21 lbs.
 

Reach4

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After brine draw (30 minutes), but still during slow rinse (30 minutes), the discharge was salty after only 15 minutes (of the slow rinse). The 1st 15 minutes of rinsing
Which seems to indicate the resin was 'full' so the slow rinse was rinsing salty water. Which seems i drew too much.
I think you are saying that the brine took 30 minutes to draw down. As I understand it, usually you would want the brine to be drawn in about 15 minutes. You may need an injector that sucks faster, or at least clean the injector in case that is the problem. You could also get slower brine draw from a small air leak into the brine line.

It would be normal for the drain line water to taste salty 15 minutes later. At the end of the brine draw/slow rinse, the saltiness should be washed out.
 

ditttohead

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If it took 30 minutes to draw the correct amount of salt from the brine tank, simply make the BD time 90-120 minutes. It is not that critical. Slower brine draw times are beneficial for efficiency but in general should not go past 120 minutes.
 

Matt Williams

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Yes. 30 min to draw correct amount. But why make the total time longer when after 45 total minutes the discharge got salty?
I tasted it. I need the salt to stay in, not rinse out. Minutes 30-45 it slow rinsed no taste. Minutes 45-60 slow rinse was salt taste.
 
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