Pump quits overnight, no water mornings

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Brian12887

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I'm having an issue in a home I rent. My landlord has not addressed it and it's going on quite a few weeks, so i am trying to see if anyone has any ideas. I do not know full specs of the well, but I will give as much info as I can. Most days when I wake up, the water is out. I can go to the breaker box, flip off breaker for 10 minutes and flip back on and have water back all day. I've noticed if my wife and I both take showers , or do a lot of laundry, the next morning the water is out. Their is a lot of black sediment in the water. Water has never quit while using, it's always after usage, and it sits all night. Sometimes it trips the breaker, some times it doesn't. But it always is turn off, wait , turn on to get water back. It's a 220 breaker. New pressure switch a month or so ago. When I remove all faucets, unhook supply lines in 2 bathrooms, kitchen and washing machine, and crank to bleed of heavy sediment, about 30 seconds per supply, I can collect anywhere from 1 cup to 3 or 4 cups of black grainy sediment in a bucket, without waiting for it to settle. Anyone have any ideas?
 

Reach4

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Possible is that the pump has a controller box and the capacitor inside is weak. Not all pumps have a controller box with a capacitor. The capacitor has to do with starting. I am sure there are other possibilities. Some people have meters that can measure capacitance once you take the capacitor out of the circuit. Some would just replace the capacitor if it is has been in service for several years.

Regarding the sediment, what you are doing -- running a lot of water at max rate-- is pretty good. If it were your well, you might get the well cleaned out or even get the pump raised if the water level is high enough. There are pump people who clean wells. Some use a big compressor and blow air down a pipe. The water and black stuff erupt like a geyser.

I don't know what the black stuff is... dirt or what. I have a friend who thinks his black stuff is manganese. I am not so sure.

I am not a pro. I have seen pictures.
 

LLigetfa

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That much sediment is not good. If the flow rate from the pump slows, it can get suspended in the downpipe and settle back down when the pump stops. Usually it will just sit on top of the checkvalve in the pump but sometimes it may impede the operation of the checkvalve and the sediment could jam up the impellers.
Why turning off the breaker for a while gets it going though is odd. Maybe the pump is going into thermal overload and needs time to cool.
 

LLigetfa

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I don't know what the black stuff is... dirt or what. I have a friend who thinks his black stuff is manganese. I am not so sure.
Manganese is easy to confirm. Rub it between you fingers and if it smells bad and leaves nasty ink-like stains, it's manganese. If not, it is black sand.
 

Brian12887

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That much sediment is not good. If the flow rate from the pump slows, it can get suspended in the downpipe and settle back down when the pump stops. Usually it will just sit on top of the checkvalve in the pump but sometimes it may impede the operation of the checkvalve and the sediment could jam up the impellers.
Why turning off the breaker for a while gets it going though is odd. Maybe the pump is going into thermal overload and needs time to cool.



Last night no water usage , this morning I again had no water. The breaker did not trip, and it was nearly 3 hours of having the breaker off before I got water back on.
 

Reach4

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Manganese is easy to confirm. Rub it between you fingers and if it smells bad and leaves nasty ink-like stains, it's manganese. If not, it is black sand.
Does the stain not wash off with soap and water? I think swamp muck would smell bad and turn your hand black as you rubbed it between your fingers. But swamp muck would wash off of your hands pretty readily.
 

Reach4

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Last night no water usage , this morning I again had no water. The breaker did not trip, and it was nearly 3 hours of having the breaker off before I got water back on.
The water came back when you turned the breaker on. I guess you are implying that you had turned the breaker on momentarily at least once during the 3 prior hours and did not get water.

Control box-- got one?
 

DonL

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You should check for a loose electrical connection at the Breaker and Pressure switch.

If they are tight, then a amp probe is the best tool for troubleshooting.


Good Luck.
 

LLigetfa

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The windings on a pump can swell from heat closing the gap on the rotor. My guess is the pump is on its last leg.
There could also be a bad cap in the control box and replacing it may buy you some time but that may just delay the inevitable to around the middle of Winter.
 

DonL

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I never did read that the pump was in the well. But it does sound like it may be.

Assumption ?
 
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Reach4

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The windings on a pump can swell from heat closing the gap on the rotor. My guess is the pump is on its last leg.
There could also be a bad cap in the control box and replacing it may buy you some time but that may just delay the inevitable to around the middle of Winter.
I suspect a new cap could get another 10 years out of the pump. My thinking is that without the start cap working right, the pump sometimes does not start. Then it draws extra current, and either blows the breaker or overheats and shuts down.

Yes, it may be a failing pump. We don't even know if it is a 2-wire pump (no capacitor in a control box) or a 3-wire pump (with a capacitor in a control box) .

We also don't know if that black-stuff collection is every day or every 6 months.
 

LLigetfa

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I suspect a new cap could get another 10 years out of the pump...
I tried that "positive thinking" crap once but I just knew it wouldn't work. It's kind of like when the smoke leaks out, you cannot put the smoke back. Windings that have swollen don't return to their original... I'm not talking just simple thermal expansion.
 

Brian12887

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I will attempt to get more info today. My guess is a 2 wire submersible but the black sediment is daily and then even after getting it flushed quick, there are 50 specks in every glass of water u get from the tap after.
 

Reach4

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I would consider at least one Big Blue 20 by 4.5 inch filter housing. There are a lot of elements available. I might put in more than one housing in series. I have three in series because I did not know what to expect. I leave the first housing empty.

I could have used smaller filters, since one of my filters looked almost new after 13 months and the other looked new. You would not have that; you would change the element(s) more often. For you I might put in 2 housings, and leave the first empty initially. But then you may be planning to move anyway.

When you roll your black stuff between your fingers, what does it smell like, and does it stain your fingers?
 

LLigetfa

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IMHO, the amount of sediment mentioned is too much for a BB. You need something that you can purge, like a Lakos.

I've heard of some folks making their own sand trap from an electric HWT. Plumb the inlet where the bottom element goes and replace the draincock with a full port ballvalve for blowdown.
 

Reach4

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You don't think a BB would last for a month? He did not say how much sediment was there after the sediment settled.

http://www.twistiiclean.com/ may indeed be the deal, or it could be the first of 2. Or are you thinking of a big one...
 

DonL

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I would find out what I was filtering out.

May be Impeller parts, ? Now.
 
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