Pump Cycling

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by RayRay, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. RayRay

    RayRay New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hi all. I've recently started experiencing some cycling problems with my system. I had a new well drilled about 10 years ago (4"....old well was 2"). What's happening is when you run water, the pump kicks on about every 15 seconds. It kicks on at 30psi and off at 50psi, but as soon as it kicks off, the pressure drops to 40psi. It does this over and over, as long as the water is running. Sometimes, the water won't we running at all, and it will do it. Also, I've not really noticed a change in pressure at the faucet. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks, Ray
  2. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Sounds like a ruptured bladder in the bladder tank, or a waterlogged non-bladder tank. Send back some details on the kind of tank you've got, its age, etc., and one of the real pros will comment.
  3. RayRay

    RayRay New Member

    Messages:
    3
    It was installed when the well was drilled 10 years ago. Gould pump. Tank is an A.O. Smith Aqua-Air Mod. V80EX.
  4. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    It's amazing that A.O Smith tank lasted that long. You might want to replace it soon before it gets that ten year old pump that has outlasted itself also. Seven years is average for a Submersible Pump but with the waterlogged tank, your really trying hard to take it out.

    bob...
  5. RayRay

    RayRay New Member

    Messages:
    3
    OK. I'm ready to buy a tank. I looked at the products on the link you provided. What size tank is minimum/recommended. I live in a one story ranch, with 1 bathroom, if it matters. Thanks, Ray
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Assuming you have a 1/2hp submersible pump, bigger is always better. The largest tank I can ship economically is the PC-144 which is equal to a 120 gallon galvanized tank.

    With a Cycle Stop Valve you could easily get by with a PC-66 which is equal to a 42 gallon tank. It would save you $$$ and work much better.

    bob...
  7. Hube

    Hube New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Ontario
    **********************************************************
    i think you are incorrect in saying this.
    it would seem to me that most sub pumps have a MUCH longer life span than just a mere 7 years.
    Anyone else like to add their two cents on this?
  8. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Hmmm, lets see:

    Dad's well, replaced first pump at about 24 years (1979), I sold the place last year, guy calls me and says well pump went out... I'm thinking he wants money... then he tells me the pump was 28 years old.

    They were both Berkeley pumps.

    My home well pump has only been replaced because the wire rubbed the casing and shorted, it was 10 years old, but hadn't gone bad.

    It was a Sears pump, who ever makes it for Sears.

    Rancher
  9. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    That would be Sta-Rite. One of the many companies bought by Pentair. The pump companies that aren't owned by Pentair are owned by ITT. There are very few independents left out there.

    If anybody thinks that one submersible pump is superior to any other; you had better guess again. Everybody talks about Goulds being the top pump. They are owned by ITT and they sponsor a Nascar. That's why they cost more.

    bob...
  10. Hube

    Hube New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Ontario
  11. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Your living in the past.

    25 years ago pumps were made better.

    Do you really think anyone in Corporate America wants any product they Manufacture to last 25 years? You need to get with the times.

    bob...
  12. Pumpman

    Pumpman Pump Sales

    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    So. Cal
    I'm in a position where I work with a number of pump contractors. Most of them like one manufacturer over another, and will give you a million reasons why. I know contractors that will install a Berkeley 4" sub pump, but wouldn't touch a Sta-rite (they come off the same assembly line....the ONLY difference is the sticker).
    I installed A.O. Smith tanks for years. I had very, very few fail, and replaced alot of Starite, Well-X-Trol and Well Mate tanks with them.
    I'm a firm believer that most major manufacturers have pretty good pumps out there. I also believe that alot of pump failures are because the contractor mis-applied the pump. I see alot of warranty requests and when I question the application the pump was in, I have to wonder what the contractor was thinking when he installed it.
    There are a lot of preferances out there when it comes to pumps and associated equipment. Everyone has their favorite. I've even had contractors slam a product, and when I've ask them if they've ever used it, said no!!!
    Anyway.....
    Ron
  13. Hube

    Hube New Member

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Ontario
    **********************************************************
    Yes, I do. Not every one is a crook
    but then it takes one to know one:p
  14. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    That's OK, your entitled to your opinion.

    Are you an Engineer?
  15. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Most people feel the same way. They cannot believe that American corporations would actually design products to fail, instead of last as they should. So the corporate snow job has been very successful!
  16. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    My brother has a friend that was an engineer for a company that makes auto parts. His job was to design the parts so they would actualy fail after a certain number of years.

    Sammy
  17. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Everything is America is now built that way. The corporations stay quiet about it. The rest of us stay blissfully ignorant that it is even happening. I am afraid "being green" is the bait they use to get even more "green" out of our pockets.
  18. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Don't let the word Stainless Steel make you think your getting more for your money. In most cases it just isn't so. Open up one of these Stainless units and see what is actually inside. That is what counts. You will find most of the time it's just plain plastic and won't outlast any other product.
  19. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I have customers bringing in Pool Pump motors for Bearing jobs every day. These open drip proof motors running in the open, in the sun in the rain and the elements last on average seven years. This is not in confined area away from humidity, rain and sun as they would be in a submersible motor. How long do you think they would last in that environment. And these bearings are plastic sheilded 6203 cheap bearings that anyone can buy for less than $1.50 each.

    bob...
  20. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    In 1974, an engineer for one of the top pump companies at the time, told me directly that they were redesigning their pumps completely. He outright told me that there company could not make profit producing pumps that would last for 30 years. All their pumps were being de-engineered to last an average of 5 years. Mineral oil lubricated ball bearings were removed and replaced with carbon plates. Brass impellers were switched to all plastic, etc., etc.

    Anyone who has ever been privy to top level meetings in large corporations knows what I am talking about. The rest of us just don't believe that corporations would do that to us, and we just keep buying inferior built products over and over again.

    Once quality was engineered out of our products, price became the only consideration. So now we shop for the lowest price instead of quality, because wether we admit it out loud or not, we realize quality is no longer available at any price.

    I would pay much extra for a car with a stainless steel body. That is as long as they put in an engine without aluminum blocks, plastic timing gears, and short lived electronic controls. These kinds of cars are not available because we now only shop for price. You may think you are shopping for quality but, it does not really exist.

    With things like cars, we pay extra for the cool factor. So they make it cool and make sure there are a few plastic gears with a certain short life expectancy, then we have to buy something cool again in short order.

    I guess this is more evident to me than to others because, I have spent 15 years selling Cycle Stop Valves in the pump industry. You would not believe the lengths that pump and motor companies have gone to try and squash or discredit Cycle Stop Valves. Not because there is anything wrong with the CSV as a control but, rather because the CSV makes pumps last longer and use smaller tanks. Having had this hit me in the face everyday for years, has opened my eyes to the fact that it happens with almost every product we buy these days. The fact that most people do not realize or believe this is happening, keeps corporations laughing all the way to the bank.
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