Pump advice needed for new well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by encoad, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Hi All,

    I'm building a new home in Ottawa, Canada this summer. I just got my well drilled. I'm trying to figure out what pump I should buy. Everyone seems to have their favorite brand, but I cannot seem to figure out if they're recommending the brand because its all they carry, what they have in stock, gives the biggest markup etc... With most things I can generally figure it out on my own by reading on the internet, but this does not seem to be the case for pumps.

    Here's what I know about the new well. They drilled to 200ft. They set a test pump at 50ft and got 12gpm (which was the maximum that their test pump could handle) and estimates it capable of 18gpm or more). The static level of the well is 11.5ft, and after pumping at 12gpm for an hour it only dropped to 15ft.

    What pump should I be buying and what depth should I be setting it to? I've read that the variable pumps are good and I've read that they are bad...

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    IL
    5 inch ID casing?

    Did they install a pitless adapter?

    Is the pipe to the house already run? Is wire run?

    At what maximum rate do you figure to draw water? Will you do much lawn watering? Without much watering and with moderate water use, I would be thinking along the lines of a 10 GPM nominal 4 inch submersible pump 3/4 HP. Maybe you want to support simultaneous high-flow showers and want more pump. I would maybe have the well set to 160, but I have no experience. I am figuring that would give you margin both ways.

    I am not a pro, but I don't want to state an opinion on what brand you want to use. My 2-wire conventional submersible pump was made in 2000 and installed in 2002. Some people say the new pumps are only good for about 8 years. Some say that figure is on the pessimistic side to avoid disappointments. Even if you get a 2-wire pump, I would have 3 wires plus green protective ground wires run. That would give you the option of going to a 3-wire pump. 3-wire pump has more starting torque, and it is more power-efficient. Since without irrigation, you are not using much power anyway, I see not having a control box or capacitor to be a plus. With a clean well, it seems to me that lower starting torque may be a bit of an advantage to reduce stresses.

    Submersible pumps are very quiet, largely because they are down in the bore. Jet pumps have the advantage of being cheap to replace since most of the system is in the basement.
  3. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Hi Reach4,

    Thanks for the quick reply. I will need to supply a pitless adapter. 6 1/4" diameter well. There is no home at the time, just the well. I plan run 4" abs under the footings into the utility room in the basement and run the electrical and water line through there for convenience sake. Good idea on running the 3-wire. I will have a sprinkler system.

    Thanks!
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    A 3/4 HP, 10 GPM sub sounds about right to me as well. But as Reach said it depends on how much water you need. With a pump that size you won't find much difference in quality between the different brands.

    Just saw your last post. What will be the demands of the sprinkler system?
  5. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I should also say that I do have a rather complex and water hungry shower going into this home, so I'd like to get the most flow that I can afford.

    Here's what they recommended:

    To supply and install 3/4 hp, submersible pump,
    Well Write WR-120 pressure tank, pitless adaptor,
    necessary plastic pipe, submersible wire, fittings, ground
    wire for the run line, torque arrestor;
  6. craigpump

    craigpump Active Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    ct
    Forget a Well Rite tank. The bladder drags on the inside seam and wears thin spots in the bladder. In addition, that tank would short cycle a 10 gpm pump to death in 8-10 yrs. Put in a Well X Trol WX251 or try a Pside Kick.
  7. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    craigpump,

    Thanks for the tank recommendation, I'll order one of those.

    As for the pump itself, the consensus is just any one? Is there any disadvantage to go with a 18gpm or better pump?
  8. craigpump

    craigpump Active Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    ct
    Pump motors do not like short run times or short cycling, so, if you go with an 18gpm pump you should use a WX 350 or a Pside Kick.

    Valveman can give you the details on a Pside Kick.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    IL
    Look at pump curves. For a given HP, there are pumps with different amount of stages. More stages mean the ability to develop more pressure but less volume. You want a pump that will be in the efficient part of the pump curve with normal conditions, but still able to deliver some water if the water level drops. For an 18 GPM pump, you would probably want a 1.5 HP pump. http://goulds.com/submersible-well-...pump-5-25-range-12-to-5-hp-standard-capacity/ would have curves and tables. Other makers would have similar documentation. Click Notifications at the top of the page.

    If you put in a pump that would be good for 18 GPM delivering 60 PSI from a 170 ft water level, it will be running at a less efficient part of the pump curve most of the time. Plus the pump could suffer from more upthrust when the water level is up high (which may be OK, but I am not sure). You want a pump where you operate somewhat somewhat near the middle of the values on a line in the Depth to Water in Feet/Ratings in GPM (Gallons per Minute) table, but are able to stay on the chart in less common situations. An 18 GPM 1 HP pump would pump water from as much as 80 feet, and even deeper if you reduced your pressure setting to 30-50 instead of 40-60 PSI.

    Plus, with an 18 GPM pump, you would need a bigger pressure tank. CSV does reduce pressure tank size requirements considerably by adding backpressure as the pressure approaches the cutoff pressure of the pressure switch. That reduces power draw some but not proportionally.

    Your sprinklers will probably run in the pre-dawn hours. Your high power shower will usually not be at the same time. But if you need 18 GPM for a considerable time, then that would be what you would want to get.
  10. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    So I should be looking at Goulds 18GS in that case? I'm not worried about the sprinkers running at the same time as the shower, I can schedule around that. The shower I'm planning to design should however have some with a life guard stand. eight jets, two show heads, one wand - any combination of which can used at any given time.

    How's this for a pump in my scenario? http://www.****.com/itm/18GS10422C-...348?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a916748dc
  11. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I've watched the video on the Pside Kick, but I'm not entirely sure what it does. It looks like a jet pump where it actually uses the pump from the well? Or maybe I'm off base?

    Is it better then a large tank? I don't mind keeping things simple.
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    IL
    It's a CSV, pressure tank, pressure switch, pressure gauge and plumbing manifold combined. Notifications.
  13. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    If it does all of those things as well or better then a traditional tank, why doesn't everyone use it?
  14. craigpump

    craigpump Active Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    ct
    I don't have a lot of experience with a CSV, but I do have wayyy too many years in the well & pump business.

    The truth is this

    Big pumps (gpm wise) and small tanks = ruptured diaphragms, pumps that fail too quickly, wire & pipe gets chaffed/shredded = more money in the pump guys pocket. Good for the pump guy, bad for the customer.

    Correctly sized pump & tank combo = good for the customer, but not so good (dollar wise) for the pump guy, but at least the pump guy knows he did a good job and the customer will have years of trouble free service.

    My take so far on the CSV is that it does as advertised = too good for the customer and again not so good for the pump guy.
  15. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Thanks CP. I also have a lot of years experience in this business. Correctly sizing the pump/tank combo, or even over sizing the tank really helps. But it is still not good enough to just reduce the cycling when someone wants to run a single hose or sprinkler for hours at a time. Even with a large enough tank to get two minutes on and two minutes off for the pump, it is still causing the pump to cycle 360 per day. The CSV solves that problem and will work with any size tank, even though a small tank is all that is really needed.
  16. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Ok, so I will be going with the CSV.

    As for the pump, I'm looking at a Goulds 18GS10422C.. Does that seem right to everyone?

    Thanks to everyone for their help.
  17. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    That would be a good pump as long as your pumping water level doesn't get deeper than 100'.
  18. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    As I mentioned earlier, my current level is 11.5 feet, so I think that is a reasonable buffer. The local company was suggesting a 3/4hp pump, however they wanted $1800 for it...

    Thanks!
  19. craigpump

    craigpump Active Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    ct
    $1800 for the pump or the whole installation?
  20. encoad

    encoad New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Just the pump, plus installation, pitless adapter, wire etc...
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