Proposed layout questions

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by TonyBagadonutz, Mar 30, 2005.

  1. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    Below is the proposed layout for my 2nd flr bth.
    The questions are:
    1 -Can the toilet be attached to the shower drain with a 4x4x2 wye and then connect to the stack for venting? Is this method of venting the toilet adequete?(NOTE: the shower is vented above)

    2 - Can the toilet closet bend be 4"..or is 3" the preferred size? (NOTE: the stack is 4"). Toilet is/will be an American Standard.

    3 - Can the 4" stack be reduced to 2" AFTER connection to the toilet via a 4" T?[EDIT: Spoke to friend; informed this is illegal]

    Venting for shower is at appx. 96" AFF, for sink 44" AFF. There will also be a 2" cross(2x2x2x2) attached at 60" AFF to allow for venting to fixtures below (on 1st flr).

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,529
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    bath

    The left hand one will not work, and there are many different ways of piping the right hand one. It depends on the space available as to which ways would be best.
  3. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    Can you elborate?
    The left is drainage only, the right is venting only.

    What is NFG about the drains?
  4. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    Is this any better?

    Revised drainage plan:
    - Toilet vent is now attached to sink venting
    - Shower drains over into 4x4x4x2 SaniTee (on 2")
    other SaniTee attachments:
    - over to toilet - 4"
    - down to street connections/1st floor drains - 4"
    - up through roof - 4"

    Will this work now?
    [​IMG]

    NOTE: Sink is a pedistal and drains out through back wall. The trap will not be an "s" trap ~ I've read here that is a violation! :)
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  5. looknohands

    looknohands New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA, USA
    Note: I'm not a plumber, so make sure to get a second opinion on this from HJ for example.

    Since the toilet is right next to the stack, I don't think you need to vent it. If you were to use a 3" toilet drain, you'd have to vent it if it were at least 6 feet away from the stack {UPC}, but you're using a 4" which means you could be as far away as 10 feet without venting it {UPC}.

    Likewise for the sink: maximum trap arm distances for a 2" pipe are 5 feet {UPC} and 8 feet [IRC]. From the drawing it looks like you may be close enough to run the sink drain without a vent. You will need a P-trap for your sink drain.

    - Erik
  6. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    My "proposed" vent stack:

    [​IMG]

    The stack is 4" for the entire run, extending a minimum of 12" after the roof (not ceiling) line.
    All drains are 2" minimum - last fitting possible will be reduced to make the need; ie sink at 1 1/4".
    Like wise all vents are 2" minimum.
  7. Clayton

    Clayton Plumber

    Messages:
    124
    pipe diagram

    I dont know if side inlet or dual side inlet sanitary tees can be used in your area, but here is a few different ways to do it. Maybe one of the other guys may know which ones would be allowed or elaborate on a better way to do it.
    Good luck on your project...

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  8. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    Me neither.. :confused:...but I think that is fairly obvious. Your plan wasn't edited as many as mine! (BTW, the file you sent me really didn't work out as well as I expected - my cheap software has it limitations...LOL; I do thank you for the effort.)

    Let's hope so!...but I am trying to make the provisions just in case and CYA. :)

    I jjust went and took actaul physical measurements for the sink and shower drains/venting:
    Sink Drain/vent (follows same path at different heights): 42" +/- an inch or 2
    Shower vent: 42"
    These measurements are HORIZONTAL(including 90's), but do not allow for vertical measurements. The shower vent vertical is over 100", and the sink (I imagine) will be about 22" (from manuf. height req.(24") to over code req.(42"))
  9. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    Clayton,

    The tub is existing and is NOT be removed...maybe I should have noted that at some point :eek: ..oops.

    With this "new" (and least to anyone following this comedy) information, I can only hope (and pray) that the cross fitting (4x4x4x2) or a an inline wye (4x4x2) is acceptable.

    the sink is a pedistal and will be tied into stack at about 24" AFF - NOT in the floor joists. I think my head would explode if I had any more than 4 connections(2 in, 1 up, 1 down) to be made at floor level in that stack!

    Thanks for the help - it is painfully evident I need it :D
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  10. Clayton

    Clayton Plumber

    Messages:
    124
    You shouldn't need to move the bathtub. The tub drain can offset around to the end of the tub, or to install it such as in the last diagram in my post it will already be at or near the end of the tub and is similar to your diagram here.
    I do not believe you can use a cross but rather a double fixture fitting (slightly shorter pattern of a wye and 1/8 bend). If your lavatory drain exceeds the maximum distance allowed from the vent then you could install it as in my last diagram and revent it and then there will be no wet venting. If wet venting is not a problem in your area you can leave it how it is and just revent it there.
  11. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    I was confused (no one is surprised) by your graffiti on my drawing ...I "thought" the green lines were an indication that the pipe would be routed UNDER the tub location.
    I am thinking the double fixture fitting is the key here.

    Considering the proximity of the toilet to the stack (maybe 20" center to center)...would wet venting be allowed? Getting a vent from the toilet to the stack(or a vent pipe on the stack) may be a challange considering the tight quarters. The toilets are not vented now - but that was installed 20+ years ago and codes change.
  12. Clayton

    Clayton Plumber

    Messages:
    124
    I think your last layout is good with changing the cross for a double fixture fitting and eliminate the seperate vent on the toilet.



    yes I did have the drain drawn going under the tub, but you could route it around to the end of the tub instead of under it. But I would say to forget my diagram and go with yours after changing the cross. If your code does not allow the sink to drain into the vent of the toilet (4"- without having the seperate toilet vent), I would think it would be easier to connect the sink drain into the tub drain under the floor than to try and add a seperate toilet vent.

    Thats my 2 cents... Hope HJ or the other guys can give you some better or definite info.
  13. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    Clayton,
    you DID give me help...thank you!

    For now, I can go buy the parts for the 4" stack - between that and what I purchased yesterday, I should only have to make 1 more trip for supplies...LOL. I did give myself a week window to get this done...3 1/2 days planning, 1 1/2 days work. :p I'm almost a day ahead of schedule!

    If anyone else wants/needs to add to this thread...I have about 1/2 day of prep work before I break the cast...I'll post some pics BEFORE I glue it together...just in case and CYA.

    Thanks again to Clay, look and hj
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,529
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drains

    Clayton's middle drawing would be the one most plumbers would use but the tub would not need the separate vent with that arrangement.
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,929
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I would say the one on the right.

    UPC codes only allows 135 degrees of bend on a trap arm,
    That middle drawing shows two 90 bends. That adds up to 180 degrees.
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,529
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    Depending on what is existing and the amount of leeway in the installation, I would run the 4" stack, (3" might be adequate, again depending on the rest of the plumbing), up behind the lavatory with a side inlet sanitary tee for the tub drain, the tee rotated to line up with the toilet opening, and a separate tee into the "vent" for the lavatory. This would eliminate the bends in the lavatory arm and also any separate tub vent.
  17. TonyBagadonutz

    TonyBagadonutz Electrician

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    NJ
    I'll be building the stack today. I'll post some pictures of what I have done and leave it UNGLUED for commentary and the inevitable changes.

    I really appreciate all the help.
    Thank you. :)
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