Proper Pump For The Job

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clayton_Ross

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Hello,
I am putting together a well house to run two houses 5 people total.
Here is what I have so far,
The well, it is 300 foot deep. It was 200 but I had it re-drilled deeper in hopes of increasing the flow, it did not acording to the driller. After about 15 feet of thick red clay and boulders followed by solid Flint rock we hit water at 65 feet the first time and it was solid grey limestone the rest of the 225 but the flow was a constant 5 gpm before the re-drill.

Around the well I have pored a slab 10x16, , bought a 1500 gal water storage tank and framed up a building around it. I put the down hole well pump on a Franklin Pumptec , electric float valve , and a heavy duty timer set to be on 20 min every hr of the day. This is working well so far but its not really in use yet.

What am not sure is what type of pump to use for service lines 4 total 1 to my house 1 to my dads and 1 line to each of our livestock and gardens
the well is about 20 feet from my house and 40 from his, the runs to the
agriculture plots are really long but down hill too :)


I will be getting a large presure tank, at least one 86 gal and maby one for each house and one for the irrigation isolated from each other.
(power outages are common here just last month did not have power for 9 days from an ice storm) and I also plan on getting a cycle stop valve they seen to get good marks.

But becase the pump will just be pulling out of the cistern i am unsure the best type of pump to use, price being a factor.

Just useing tractor supply as an example as thay have many types
and I can use my sisters employee discount and farm tax there plus no shipping.
here are a few types i am looking at
Centrifugal Utility Pump, 1 HP
Cast Iron Lawn Sprinkler Pump, 1 1/2 HP
Cast Iron Lawn Sprinkler Pump, 1 HP
Shallow Well Jet Pump, 1 HP this is where i am leaning
Convertible Jet Pump, 1 HP

thanks for the imput
this is a work inprogress, i made the building large so i could add water equipment if and as needed and if not store fire wood, but i want to get it going now and make it more robust later after i save up more money
 
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clayton_Ross

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I have a second queston
what is a plan for cistern maintenance?
do i need to periodicly flush it out or add bleach ?
and would a UV bulb mounted in the tank (like the ones used in food stuff tanks) be of any benefit?
thanks
 

Valveman

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If you set the pump at 300', you will have about 400 gallons stored in the well and a recharge rate of 5 GPM. You probably do not even need the storage tank and extra pump. You would just need to run less than 5 GPM for any irrigation. A CSV on the well pump would allow you to use it at any rate you need, even with a small pressure tank. And I would recommend a small pressure tank so you don't pump the well dry just refilling the tank.

The storage tank will need some disinfecting. Sometimes just a little chlorine will do, other times you need more than that. A UV light cannot be just put in the storage tank. You need to pump water through a UV light tube.

I can't believe any place can sell pumps without having a performance curve, or even a chart!!!!
That shur-dry pump is made to make the company money, not to last very long for you. If you go with the storage, I would use a submersible in the tank instead of a jet pump. Oh yeah, and big pressure tanks are a thing of the past.
 

Speedbump

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Never, Never buy a pump at a big box store. Shur Dri is Myers in a blue paint. Or Water Ace by any other name. Still junk with the worst motor they can buy.

If you must go with the cistern (I agree with Valveman on the "don't use one theory") put a submersible pump in it instead of pulling with a jet pump. Two stage boosters and centrifugal self primer irrigation pumps are not at all what you need anyway. If you have to go with a suction pump, the jet is the answer next to the Submersible Pump.

bob...
 
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clayton_Ross

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If you set the pump at 300', you will have about 400 gallons stored in the well and a recharge rate of 5 GPM. You probably do not even need the storage tank and extra pump. You would just need to run less than 5 GPM for any irrigation. A CSV on the well pump would allow you to use it at any rate you need, even with a small pressure tank. And I would recommend a small pressure tank so you don't pump the well dry just refilling the tank.

The storage tank will need some disinfecting. Sometimes just a little chlorine will do, other times you need more than that. A UV light cannot be just put in the storage tank. You need to pump water through a UV light tube.

I can't believe any place can sell pumps without having a performance curve, or even a chart!!!!
That shur-dry pump is made to make the company money, not to last very long for you. If you go with the storage, I would use a submersible in the tank instead of a jet pump. Oh yeah, and big pressure tanks are a thing of the past.

thanks for the info
on the pump selection i was really just looking for type to get i am not going to go with suredry,
a Submersible Pump is the same type I have in the well. so I would just put one in the storage tank too. ok that seemed odd to me but thats what i will do.
The SCV is for the presser pump not the well pump, to keep the well from running dry i have the pump teck and timer. even thow the well driller said it was 5 gal a min we are prone to drought ever few years and last summer i ran it dry when it was just used for irragation and had no storage tank

the big presser tanks are for as i said power outages


ok so if i get a Submersible Pump what kind the stages ? as it would no lift, the storage tank level with the houses , do need one that has the least number of stages and the flow i want ?

thanks for the help
i will keep working on it
 
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Valveman

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Houses won't need but 5 GPM each. Size the booster pump for the irrigation, and just add 5 GPM extra if you will be running irrigation at the same time as the house needs water. And yes this is the pump that need the CSV, as it is the one with variable uses.

Pressure tanks do not store water for power outages. Murphy's law says the pressure will be at 41 PSI with a 40/60 pressure switch when the power goes off. Even if by chance you have an 85 gallon tank at 60 PSI when the power goes off, you only have 22 gallons. A quick attachment for a generator is the best way to have back up water.
 

Gary Slusser

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Valveman, I disagree that a house only needs 5 gpm. I sell residential water treatment equipment that records the max gpm run through it each day for the last week and then the highest gpm run through it since it was installed.

I size that equipment to be able to treat the max gpm that the house will have during the peak demand water use times. A single bathroom house will go over 5 gpm frequently, and there are 3 houses on this system and most peak demand will tend to be at the same time in each house. A 2.5 bath house will usually need 10 gpm and if there is a large tub or two person shower or body sprays, they can go up to 15-16 gpm. In all these years, I've not been proven wrong yet and all but 1200 customers have the data to prove my figures.

Clayton, you should plan on the well pump having to be pulled someday so don't build it in in a way that prevents that from being done easily.

A cistern is a bad idea due to water quality issues and the expense and maintenance that causes, along with another pump and pressure tank but a cistern may be your only option here. And it might have to be a 1000-1500 gal tank depending on the water use in the houses and the irrigation.

Limestone says hard water, so when you have your water tests done, expect the water to be hard. All UV lights have pretreatment requirements like no more than 7 gpg of hardness and really you need 0 gpg, no H2S or iron and manganese etc .etc.. And you can't use a UV ahead of the cistern to keep the water from airborne bacteria, flies, ants, slime etc. in the cistern.

For a softener you will have to size for the peak demand gpm of all 3 houses or, install equipment at each house. I commonly sell up to 4 cuft softeners with 24-25 gpm constant SFR (service flow rating) for single houses with 2.5 or 3.5 bathrooms with 2 or more people living there with large tubs and high volume use showers. I sold one 6 weeks ago where the two person shower with 6 body sprays was flowing at 20 gpm alone; any other water use is added to that gpm. If the SFR of the volume of resin in the softener allows a lower SFR than the peak demand the softener will not be able to remove all the hardness in the water.
 

clayton_Ross

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thanks Gary
yes i put the door right next to the well and put a pully wheel
on the trusses that makes it easy to pull the pump with my 4wheeler

I already have the cistern, its a new 1500 gal black plastic tank it was not that pricey got a good deal $400
I really dont see how to do this with out the tank.
are thay that hard to keep clean? it will be indoors with an air filter on the breather hole.
 

Valveman

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Yeah, I guess I am showing my age still thinking that a house only needs 5 GPM. You are right that modern houses have things like full body showers and multiple bathrooms, probably all being used at the same time. If it were just the houses, you could still probably get away without needing the storage tank. With irrigation, you will need the storage. Still if you run the irrigation at off peak times you can use a smaller booster pump. Only being able to fill the storage tank at 5 GPM, irrigating at off peak times is probably mandatory.
 

clayton_Ross

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Are you sure the tank is approved for potable water use? Most that are are opaque or white.

Cleaning it will depend on your water quality.

How about the houses, how many people and bathrooms in each and any large tubs or showers?

ya it am sure it for potable water, you can get dark green and black one to keep light out thay just cost more than the white ones
it just like this one Tank

2 people in one house and 3 in the other
both houses have two monohead stand up showers and one large soaking tub
but both houses are on deferent sceduals and we have done a lot to stop wasted water.

the irregation will be mostly in the form of drip, for grapes fruit trees and hop vines and a few sprinklers for a large garden plot but all that will be watered in the dead of night with a timers.

this is the tank

freshwater.jpg


the fittings include a 1½†top-inlet & 2†lower-outlet and the 16†threaded lid
seeing this tank would you still cut a hole in it and add a Submersible Pump
or just use a jet pump off the bottom bulkhead?

thanks
Clayton
 

Gary Slusser

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Four showers and two big tubs, 2 dishwashers and 2 clothes washers, 2 kitchen sinks, X outside faucets, X utility sinks. Large tubs can flow 10 gpm alone but unless both were filling at the same time, without more info I'd say a peak demand of 14-16 gpm total.

IMO a submersible pump is a much better choice than a jet pump. They are easy to install in a tank with a union to disassemble when needed. You can cut a hole at the top of the straight side for the outlet line and elbow down to hang the pump, allowing like 10-12" between the pump and the side of the tank and then support that line from above inside the tank. Or do it outside the top of the tank, hung by the manhole, and use the top of the tank for support.
 
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