Programming Fleck SXT Timer

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by robshobs, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. robshobs

    robshobs New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Commerce City, CO
    I installed my new water softener this past week. The system came from the internet vendor pre-programmed. I had a question about a few of the settings. Let me provide some information about my installation.

    • 8 people @ 60 gallons/person/day = 10,080 grains/day
    • Water hardness: 21 grains/gal
    • Fleck 9000 with SXT Timer
    • 2.5 cuft of Dowex HCR-S/S per tank
    • 160,000 grain capacity (80,000 per tank)

    First question about the settings is the Unit Capacity. The unit came programmed for 50,000 grains. I asked the vendor and they said they only program two-thirds of the total capacity because regenerating the full capacity take too much salt. It seems to me it should be 80,000 grains and the Safety Factor, set to 20%, would prevent this from occuring. Isn't setting the capacity to 50K double-dipping? It seems the system will regenerate when 40K of capacity is used if set at 50K (50K - (50K * 20%) = 40K). For 80K setting, it would regenerate at 64K. So how should the Unit Capacity be set?

    Next question, according to the Fleck manuals, the brine fills at 1 gpm and the unit is set to fill for 10 minutes. At 3 lbs of salt per gallon (per the Fleck manual), I am inferring the system will use a 30lb salt dose to regenerate. This seems high. If the full 80K is regenerated, I think the salt dose should be 23lbs and for 50K, 13lbs. Is my math correct? Based upon the answer to my first question, what should the salt dose be?

    I appreciate any insights I can get.

    Rob
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    Ontario California
    #1, the 9000 valve... are you sure it is not a 9100? The 9000 is not my favorite valve. The brass body is not as durable as the 9100's plastic valve body in certain water conditions.

    #2, the valve should not have any safety factor, set it to 0. The system is a twin alternating design and should use close to 100% of it capacity assuming you have it set to regenerate immediately, not on a delay. A delay would not make any sense for a twin alternating system in the vast majority of applications.

    #3, Do not use the manual to determine the salt fill rate. Fleck makes available refill rates of .125, .25, .5, and 1.0 GPM for that valve. On the valve where the brine line attaches to the injector/drain assembly, you will see a sticker on the valve. It is typically red, blue, or black. Read it, it will tell you the refill rate. Assuming your system is set to 6 pounds of salt per cu. ft, your system capacity should be set to 20K per cu. ft, or 50K. 6 pounds per cu. ft. would require 15 pounds of salt, or 5 gallons of water.

    Hope this helps.
  3. robshobs

    robshobs New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Commerce City, CO
    Yes, it is the brass 9000. Perhaps I should have done more research up front. I've only had the unit online for four days. Is this something I should be concerned about? Perhaps I need to seek a return for the 9100?

    I set the unit back to Meter Immediate and there is no Safety Factor. I was thinking it would be good to regenerate in the middle of the night but will let it run this way.

    There is a white sticker that says Injector 2 and then Drain Flow 4.0 gpm. The 2 and 4.0 are hand written. There is not red, blue or black sticker. So now I'm more confused. Should I test the flow rate using a bucket and timing for 60 seconds?

    Rob
  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The brass body is fine. I have had some go bad in the feild, but this is a couple out of thousands. I have never had the 9100 body fail. The brass will probably serve you fine for decades. The plastic is also a lot less expensive. We use the brass primarily for hot water applications now.

    Regenerating in the middle of the might is not necessay, it is unlikely you will ever know that the system is regenerating.

    Next to the white sticker should be a small sticker that is not hand written. It should be either blue, black, or red. it will tell you what the flow control to the brine system is. Otherwise, you could time it. It is highly accurate at .125, .25, .5, or 1.0 GPM. the .5 is the most common that I see in the field. It is a black sticker with silver printing. Look right where the brine line goes into the valve. It will be on the same black plasti assembly that the white sticker you noted earlier is.

    Look again, unless the assembler removed it (not uncommon) it will be there. It is hard to see on the 9000.

    You have an excellent system, congrats!
  5. robshobs

    robshobs New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Commerce City, CO
    dittohead,

    Found the sticker. The unit is close to the wall and because of bifocals I couldn't get a good read. Got my son to stick his head back there and it says 0.5 gpm.

    For a 50K setting, the brine tank is filling with 5 gallons (10 minutes x 0.5 gpm) and that would yield a 6 lb salt dose, which I believe is correct.

    So, if I may go back to my original question, why is it I buy an 80K system but then program it for 50K? At 50K, the system will regenerate more than once every seven days. I was the system would regenerate once a week based upon 80K.

    Perhaps I am just thinking too much.

    Rob
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    Ontario California
    A single tank system should regenerate every 6-30 days for maximum efficiency. Anything beyond 6 days only increases the efficiency slightly.

    A twin alternating system should be designed to regenerate no more than oncer per day, but... i see many applications where the twin alternating systems will regenerate mutiple times per day without a problem. These is no loss of efficiency with a twin alternating system. Many people dont understand the way they work so they will argue the point, they should simply be ignored.

    Softeners efficiency is based on grains removed per pound of salt used.

    A softener regenerated with 6 pounds of salt per cu. ft. will yeild 20,000 removal, or 3333 grains removed per pound of salt.

    In order to get to the 32,000, the salt would have to be tripled to 18 pounds per cu. ft.. This will yield only 1777 grains removed per pound of salt.

    Anything lower than 6 pounds will give you better effieicncy but will sacrafice of soft water quality. Most people who like the "slippery" feel of soft water prefer the systems to be regenerated at 8 pounds of salt per cu. ft.

    A softener regenerated with 8 pounds of salt per cu. ft. will yeild 24,000 removal, or 3000 grains removed per pound of salt.

    As you can see, the more salt, the less salt efficient a softener becomes. You will gain a slight increase in water efficiency with higher salt usage, but most waste streams prefer higher volumes of water rather than more salts.

    A twin alternating system regenerating weekly is just fine.

    Hope this helps a little.
  7. robshobs

    robshobs New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Commerce City, CO
    This helps a lot. Thank you for all of the information.

    Rob
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