Producing a well with gas

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by rshackleford, Nov 28, 2005.

  1. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    We recently drilled a well that produces a lot of gas. In fact the sub pump gas locks immediately.

    Has anyone had experience preceding a well with gas like this?

    What pump works? I was thinking about the helical Grundfos SQ Flex.

    Would it work to run a packer down with 1†galvanized and let the gas push the water up?

    This is a stock well and about 3-5 gpm would be ideal. The well could be allowed to run year around to avoid freezing if need be.

    Any suggestions?
  2. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Hey Shack,

    Will this gas burn? If so the heck with the water.

    bob...
  3. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    No the gas will not burn. I was relieved that it wouldn’t burn, but the customer shares your opinion.
  4. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    No one has ever had experience with this!! I need some help here guys.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    What kind of gas doesn't burn?

    And if the "gas" locks up the pump, I have no idea how you'd remove the gas in the well. And I guess no one else does either. Sorry.

    I might test that pump to know it's good or try another.

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Is there that much gas (air) that is makes the pump lose it's prime?


    bob...
  7. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    We installed a submersible. We sell about 2 jet pumps a year and they are booster pumps on flowing wells. The submersible would pump about ten gallons and then stop. After a few minutes it would pump a few gallons and stop. This would go on and on. The static is way up there and there was no measurable drawdown.

    We have tried a couple of gas separators in other well, but with no success. I have though a little about the Grundfos SQ Flex pump. This pump is s helical rather than an impeller pump. I though it might be possible that this pump would handle the gas better.

    So, I am looking for a way to make this well work for the customer.
  8. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    What is helical in a submersible pump? I'm not a big Grundfos fan, so I have not heard of this design.

    bob...
  9. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    We have not had great luck with the 4†Grundfos subs. The welded stainless impellers seem to fly apart too easily. However, we do have occasions when we need to use their three inch pumps on small diameter wells.

    The Grundfos solar pumps are another story all together. These pumps are pretty awesome. The motors can take just about any voltage you can throw at them. That is right AC/DC motors. 110VAC or 220VAC. If you don’t have enough sun, then hook up a generator and you can catch up. The fluid ends themselves are helical. See the attached link.

    grundfos sq flex

    sq flex picture
  10. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I never cared for the Grundfos pump. The stainless impellers don't hold a candle to the plastics they use today. A little grit and they disappear.

    Myers has a nice 3" submersible that actually turns only 3450 rpm's unlike the Grundfos that turns 10,000.

    bob...
  11. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    We only sell the little Grundfos. I agree with you the stainless impellers.

    I doubt that we will ever sell anything but Grundfos and Goulds. We have good working relationships with the wholesalers. The Goulds pumps have worked well for us for years. I don’t know what else to say.

    This pump is different, though. It has not impellers, just a helical rod. That’s why I though it might do better with the gas.
  12. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I would like to see a close up of the design. It sounds like a worm pump for pumping concrete, but I doubt it is.

    bob...
  13. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    The link that I posted is the only pictures I have of it. If you have Photoshop or something like it you should be able to zoom in on it.
  14. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Progressing Cavity Pump

    The pump looks like a Progressing Cavity Pump, which was originated by Moyno. It is a positive displacement pump that can develop high pressure with low flow. The stainless shaft is usually running in a rubber cavity.

    http://www.moyno.com/website/

    They are sometimes used for low flow reverse osmosis systems where high pressure is required.
  15. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Check Valve?

    Presumably the gas is dissolved in the water and escapes when the pressure is reduced at the inlet of the impeller, or even as the water passes the motor of the pump. I have never seen NPSH curves for submersible pumps. It might help to set the pump as far as possible below the static level.

    This might be a case for taking the check valve out of the pump so the gas can escape to the top of the pipe more easily. If it is a stock pump discharging to an open tank, is it possible to get rid of the check valve altogether? That would eliminate the initial head that the pump must start against and let the gas float to the top when the pump is off, and would let any gas easily escape when the pump starts.
  16. rshackleford

    rshackleford New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Eastern Montana (The Bakken)
    I think that we are going to try a couple of things on this well. First, we are going to use a sanitary seal to act as a packer. It is our hope that there will be enough pressure to make the water rise to surface in a 1†pipe. This is unlikely. After this I think we will try one of the grundfos pumps. If the grundfos pump does not work, we might try a sort of double cooling jacket. With one jacket installed normally and the other inverted. I am told that this encourages the water to flow into the pump and the gas to rise past the pump. The problem as I see it is getting something like this to fit down a five inch well.

    I wonder how an old cylinder pump would work.

    As far as the check valve, yes I thing we would eliminate it. This will be a well with a sanitary well seal and will have to drain back to keep from freezing. So we would normally drill a hole in the check valve or the drop pipe. In this case maybe we should remove the check all together if you think that it would help. I do however think that the Goulds pump we are using as a test pump now does not have a check. I believe that our drillers take out the check to make the pump easier to pull out of the well.
  17. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

    Messages:
    661
    Location:
    Washington
    Helical pump

    These guys http://www.conergy.us/DesktopDefault.aspx have a helical pump. The ekectronics are all above ground. Water bearings, stainless rotor in rubber, power is DC (designed for solar) and can be powered from an AC power supply.

    I have one down 500 ft. Pumping from almost empty well and pressurizing a tank to 60 psi I have never seen it draw more than 500 watts and usually less.

    I would guess it should not care about gas unless it is so plentiful and undisolved that it effectively makes the pump run "dry".
  18. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    They used to be Dankoff Solor I believe. They are a bit pricey but from what I have heard work very well.

    I had one thought on this old thread Shack. If you are going to pull the check valve from the pump, you want to be sure you have a high water level. Water running back down the droppipe can run the pump backwards pretty fast, and if it ever decided to start during this moment. You could have an impeller less pump or a pump with a broken shaft. I have seen this condition occur on deep well turbines without anti-reverse spin assemblies in the motor. What a mess.

    bob...
  19. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Wire in a time delay relay such that when the pump shuts off it can not restart until a predetermined period of time has elapsed.

    You could monitor the induced voltage on the motor wires when water is dropping down to determine how long it will take for your delay.
Similar Threads: Producing
Forum Title Date
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog suggestions for low producing wells Feb 1, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog setting up a reservoir tank for low producing well Sep 5, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog low producing well with coyote switch questions Aug 29, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Looking for low producing well advice... Feb 11, 2012
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog New well (9 mo. old) stopped producing water Nov 25, 2011

Share This Page