Problems with Toto Ultramax MS851441SL Fill Valve

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by leahpo, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. leahpo

    leahpo New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Burlington, Ontario
    Hello,

    We are in desperate need of help. We have 3 year old Toto Ultramax MS851441SL. In the last few months the toilet keeps running all the time, water goes into the fill valve, but no water seems to go into the bowl.

    We shut off the water to the toilet, and the water level stayed the same for a few days. So we thought it is not a flapper.

    Reading your forum we figured that we need Korky 528MP replacement valve. Unfortunately, Korky does not ship to Canada, Lowes and Home Depot in Canada do not carry this model, and the US stores would not ship to Canada either. I even called a distributor in Ontario who gave me a few store names, but none carry this Korky model - they can order it, but it is 7 - 10 days wait.

    We called Toto, and they suggested we get either TOTO replacement part TSU99A.X or Korky 528MP.

    After a lot of calling around, we found a plumbing store that carried TSU99A.X, and had it in stock. We purchased it ($55 in Canada, and not refundalble), the plumber in the store adjusted the height of the new valve to the height of our old fill valve. My husband installed new valve, but it still runs, the same way! TOTO manual for TSU99A.X does not have our model on the instruction sheet, so we were not sure what fill valve height it should be and if it really matters.
    We bought a new flapper from Lowes, and replaced it as well - still runs!

    During adjustment of the new valve the tamper proof accessory fell off and was flushed down the drain, so we cannot even adjust it now.

    What do we do now? The new valve and new flapper do not work and we are down to one working toilet!

    I cannot call Toto because they are available only 8-5 p.m. Monday - Friday, and we are at work at that time.

    Thanks for any advice!

    Thanks Leah
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,832
    Location:
    New England
    Well, the good news is that the tamperproof lock doesn't really need to be reinstalled...it is a good thing for commercial operations. Is the water going over the top of the overflow valve? If it's running, it must be going somewhere! If a new valve didn't resolve your issue, the only other thing I can think of is that your house water pressure is very high - that's easy to check. In the states, the big box stores sell an adjustable Korky valve...almost the same as the Toto universal replacement, except you need to adjust the bowl/tank ratio after making a few measurments rather than setting it to the desired number on the Toto valve...they are made by the same company, and will work fine, once adjusted. The goal is to get the bowl just filled when the tank is full so you don't waste water.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,775
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I think you got your Ultramax model number messed up a bit. Do you mean MS854114SL?

    The 528MP and the TSU99A.X are essentially the same thing. You have a good valve. You absolutely can adjust it without the tamper proof key, which locks it in place. It's not a key to unlock; it's a key to lock. So if you need to adjust anything, you can do it.

    Let's diagnose your problem. You've got water coming into the toilet tank that isn't going out through the flapper, and it's running.

    Does the toilet ever stop running? I mean does it ever fill and shut off, only to run a little later on? Or does it just run and run without shutting off ever?

    When you look into the tank, does the water rise over the top of the overflow riser (which is the pipe that sticks up vertically from the flush valve and flapper). In other words, is it running into the tube? If so, you need to lower the water level. If not, then that's not the problem.

    Is the hose from the fill valve "daylighted" above the top of the overflow riser on the little clip? If it's stuck down in the overflow riser, it will siphon water from the tank down to a certain level, which will cause a need for a refill ("running").

    If the water in the tank is falling to a certain level in the tank and then stopping, or never rising above a certain level even though the valve is open, I would suspect a crack in the overflow riser, where the water leaks into it and down into the bowl, bypassing the flapper. I would inspect that pipe for cracks.

    Let us know how you make out.

    PS I doubt you will need a new fill valve any time soon, but this model of Ultramax can take the Korky 528T fill valve, The basic 528 will not work properly on your toilet, but the 528T will.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2013
  4. crosstalk

    crosstalk Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    PA
    I just posted another thread about the different water level marks on the toto by korky and the 528mp. The store probably just adjusted the body to the same height which would make the 528mp way too high and probably not shut off.
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,775
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I'm not sure what you are seeing. I have the 528 (white cap), the 528T and the 528MP on the various toilets in our house, and the water level seems to be in the same place on all of them.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,832
    Location:
    New England
    You can't go by the height of the tower, as different valves may have slightly different internals...just adjust the height of the tower to get the water level where it needs to be. Make sure that the cap is on fully, otherwise, it may rub on the float that's inside, and affect the level. Then, if you have the cover off, the seal is underneath the top of the tower cap. If the valve is leaking, that's the thing you normally change, since it contains the seal. There are a couple of things that can affect the seal...debris (sand, or other crud) getting under the seal, or excessive water pressure. Either of those can allow water to continue to run.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,818
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I normally set the water level with the fill valve in the tank and the water on, and then push in the locking tab last.

    That's the last few seconds I spend. Wham Bam, Done!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
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