Problem with Fleck 7000 45k water softener

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by dergrah, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    I need help to figure out why my water softener has never worked and if I need to replace to whole unit or fix the problem. I’ve created a separate post on figuring out if the rest of my set up is sufficient.

    Current set up is attached. Last water test results are below. A few times a year I used to get Iron Bacteria from the well.

    I installed it 4 ½ years ago and it has never worked.

    I had someone out to look at it and they said the following.

    1. That the backwash flow was too low with the ½ pipe I had shared between the softener and the carbon filter. ( this is now upgraded to 1â€)
    2. That the media could be dead due to chlorine pass-through from carbon filter, I ran it in by pass for a few weeks thinking it would be good to kill any iron bacteria.

    I took apart the unit this morning and found that the down pipe in the unit is not making a tight seal in the fleck 700 head. The pipe 1-1/16th and the opening for it in the head is 1-1/4th. See attached pictures.

    I assume this is a problem and that I was sent the wrong down pipe assembly when I bought the unit online.

    Can some one confirm this? Based on my water test should this unit be sufficient in softening my water and removing the iron and manganese with chlorination?

    PARAMETER UNITS Sample
    Alkalinity as CaCO mg/L 268
    Chloride mg/L 49
    Conductivity uS/cm 710
    Fluoride mg/L 0.16
    N-NO3 (Nitrate) mg/L <0.10
    pH 7.45
    REDOX Potential mV 78
    Sulphate mg/L 36
    Tannin & Lignin mg/L 0.4
    Hardness as CaCO3 mg/L 312
    Ion Balance 0.95
    Calcium mg/L 102
    Magnesium mg/L 14
    Potassium mg/L 3
    Sodium mg/L 19
    Iron mg/L 0.97
    Manganese mg/L 1.48

    Thank You !

    Derek

    Attached Files:

  2. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    I am going to work on the valve,
    A) dump the upper baskets, I have found Iron and upper baskets do not play well together.
    B) The valve looks to be set for the high flow with out the the high flow distributor down through the media. one part will fix that .. Fleck part number 61419 it will make up the difference between the valve body hole and the distributor.. and have all the water stay where it should and not cross over giving untreated water.
  3. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    Thanks ! I actually found that I had that part. It's all back together now and I'm running it through a cycle. Can the experts recommend settings for the fleck 7000 based on my posted water test? Given that the media likely sat there for 4 1/2 years stagnant will i need to change it?

    Again thanks !

    Derek :)
  4. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    You might use some iron out or the like in the brine tank for the softener, mix up a large batch and watch the unit so that after it has drawn it in along with the salt let it set in bypass for about 1 hour and then let it finish out that cycle and then send it through another cycle..
    A few cycles might be needed to clean up the risen, most resin is forgiving and will clean up..
    You might also after the first soaking advance it to the backwash and let it stay there for about 20-30 minutes ...

    I myself would try the simple things first before replacing the media, it might have to be replaced but I would try soak and long backwash to see if it cleans up.

    Most of the time I have been able to get the media back.

    There has only been 2 that I can remember that replacing was cheaper ,,, both times iron was 8-9ppm and they had run the system for 2 years with NO salt.............


    Make sure that the other 7000 has the right fitting for the distributor that is in use........ it too might not have that part in place.
  5. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,932
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Ja, my water guy told me that at first they were running an exacto knife blade painstakingly through the slots to open them back up, then they started to cut every second jail bar out and eventually just tossed the baskets.

    I was told that iron can foul (coat) the beads to the point they won't come back and that clorine actually causes the beads to fracture and crumble into fines.
  6. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    But the question is how much fouling before the beads will not come back..

    There was this one system that was working on 35ppm iron and 20 grains of hardness.. and every 4 months 2 cups of bleach to control smell..... after 8 years it was time to replace the resin as it could no longer do the baseball to softball and back again....

    Each system is a little different because of the water and what it will do to the resin.......

    Life is simple, why muck it up with over thinking it?
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,932
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Well, in my case the answer was 10 years with no clorine. For the first 8 years it had no special treatment. I then learned of Iron Out and revived it but never quite to its former glory. For 2 years I brought it back from the brink of death several times and finally had it rebedded.

    So, are you suggesting rebedding or fuggedaboudit? Not trying to strain too many brain cells, but since it never worked for Derek since day one, the beads might be almost like new. A little IO and wait and see.
  8. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    If that one part was not in place then the media or resin was most likely never really used.

    Not having that part in place is like the Culligan twin that I worked on a number of years ago that tank one would never treat the water..... why........ finally removed the main control valve that is over tank one and know what was found?

    The distributor was not in the hole like it should have been so all the water was coming in and going right back out again... after getting it where it should have been from day one it and the other tank worked GREAT.......... and the customer was happy,, very happy.

    Chlorine and iron out will shorten the life of the resin, how much shorter is different from how much is used and how often..

    Will his resin need to be replaced? maybe... but I would say for now if we can get life back, then save up for the resin and do it in a few years..

    I am not sure about the rest but I know for myself money is tight and simple fix for now is better than spending money that I may not have to spend right now would be better.

    Have 2700 setting around? that is what it going to take to replace the 8 injectors and the rest of the work on my 7.3 powerstroke....
  9. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    Help !

    So I didn't find that the softener was doing anything after the fix of the down pipe mate the the head. So I finally got around to getting some new resin. Doing the swap out and to my surprise all my resin was gone out of the tank! Now I'm sure it was there before the last teardown.

    It was recommended to remove the upper basket. Did this result in the loss of resin. I need to find the culprit so I don't wipe out $200 of new resin.

    Thanks,

    Derek
  10. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    Is there a check valve between the pressure tank and the well?
    If you did not see any resin in the house, or notice any resin in the drain line or where it drains then it could have been sucked back down into the well...
  11. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    ok I lie. In the bottom of he tank there was at least 1 cubic ft of resin. After siphoning out the water from the down pipe when I looked in I expected to see media up to 2/3 of the tank and thought the bottom was gravel. I recall that came with 1 1/2 cubic ft of resin. There was no gravel bed.
  12. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    so my new questions.

    1. Should I have a gravel bed?
    2. I have 2 bags of resin can I use all of it vs. 1 1/2 bags? I'm sure I won't fill 2/3 of the tank with the two bags.
    3. What's the down side to using the basket?

    Derek
  13. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    If you have a basket much like the upper one down at the bottom then yes to the gravel, size of tank says how much gravel is to be used.
    Then there needs to be 17" of space between the top of the resin and the threads of the tank.

    We have already talked out the upper basket and that some like my self have seen them to be a problem more times than not, there was only time that the upper basket was a good item. The owner had a plumber put in a sears unit... the plumber put the sears in back wards, in on the out and out on the in... had it not been for the basket the resin would have been in the house big time and fast.
  14. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    Thanks. This is going to sound dumb but I don't think if I can get gravel locally quick for this application. Would fish tank gravel do? Tank label is not readable. Tank is 55 inch high , circumference of 33 inch

    Derek
  15. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    Sounds like a 10x54 tank
    pea gravel from a fish tank would work, just make sure that it is cleaned with bleach .... You will need about 20lbs of number 20 gravel ...
  16. dergrah

    dergrah New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Cantley Quebec
    Thanks for all your help ! Off the fish store. With a 10 x54 tank can I put 2 bags of softener resin?

    Derek
  17. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,481
    Location:
    Alaska
    Most likely only 1.5 cubic feet or foot....
    Now if it was with the turbulator then you might be able to push to 1.8 cubic... but with out it is 1.5 cubic
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