Pressure Switch Failed Twice - Pictures

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cashen

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I just bought this house and have had it for about 6 weeks. Haven't moved in yet though. The pressure switched failed on the pump, it overheated and melted the pressure switch and then tripped the breaker. I ordered another one and installed it (I’m 99.999% sure I installed it correctly). There was no pressure in the tank. It ran for about 20 minutes with faucets open and it ran as expected. I wanted to finish the job and build pressure in the tank so I closed the faucets. The pictures below are of the second switch.

My dad thinks it might be a short in the motor and or not large enough wire.

As you can tell they did a professional job wiring this thing and the plumbing is also outstanding (Yes that is ½†PVC feeding the house). They don’t use the GFI unit seen in the picture and that is why there is an extension cord. The breaker is 15 amp.

Its plugged into a 110 outlet, I did not check to make sure the motor was wired for 110 because I have to take it out or get a mirror and take the end cap off.

It’s a sears 1 HP jet pump (#390. 252283). Nothing says quality like sears…

Any advice would be appreciated.


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Speedbump

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Wow, what a professional job.

I would quit running that motor until you find out what voltage the motor is wired for, then get rid of the extension cord, hard wire it to a breaker then figure out how to replumb the whole thing so a human being could work on it if needed. Boy I love plastic pumps!

How in the world did they use wrench's in a hole like that. I've seen some tough installs, but I think you have the first prize.

bob...
 

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For starters, that 1/2" discharge line is not big enough for a 1 hp pump, even a Sears 1 hp, which is downrated. I'm betting that the pressure switch chatters when the pump starts, that is, it opens and closes very rapidly, which usually will spark like crazy. What happens is that the pump is pumping more water than the small discharge can carry away. The pressure inside the pump builds very quickly to cutout pressure and the pump shuts off. Just as quickly, the pressure drops to cutin and the pump restarts.
Just to check for proper wiring, make sure the wires from the motor go to the two inside terminals and the line goes to the outside terminals.
I'm betting also that the galvanized piping out of the pump to the tank is probably corroded up and much smaller I.D. than when new.
Ron
 

cashen

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Thanks for the quick replies. I think it did hear it chatter some and i think it got worse with more pressure, but I thought it was vibrations due to the quality workmanship.

I was going to hardwire 220.

So now;

Discharge not large enough - Chatter leads to sparks and failure
Wiring not large enough - Voltage drop
Short in the motor - high currents

Can rule any of these out? I guess my next step would be check voltages, pay attention to chatter, and verify motor.
 

Speedbump

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The tank could very easily be waterlogged too, making things even worse.

Seriously, is there any more space around there that equipment can be brought up out of that hole?

All those elbows in the two pipes going to the well isn't conducive to a good water supply. If you can reroute those pipes so they come straight into the pump from the well, things are going to work better.

Before changing to 230 volt, make sure the motor is wired for it.

bob...
 

cashen

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yeah there is room to bring the whole thing out. I was also planning on replacing the tank with a bladder version, but not until i actually moved in... The motor is a dual voltage motor so i would switch it to 230v if it was correctly set to 115.
 
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Gary Slusser

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The wire looks like 12 gauge to me, and it should be fine. And IMO connecting it to the outside or inside terminals shouldn't make any difference; it's a contact switch but I don't know why it is said (and marked Load etc.) to connect the source to the outside and the load to the inside terminals, Ron or Bob?

I've never seen a switch do this and I've seen a few thousands switches. I've also worked in many pits like this too. And at 62 and 6'4"... well lately I have refused to work on any of them. But a pit is a pit and most are a PIA but, you still get water with a few 'extra' els in the lines.

As to the 1/2", I see the copper or galvanized going into the house from the Cpvc (not PVC) is 1/2" also. And I've worked on a lot of 1/2 plumbing but, the pump is much larger hp than is needed.

I zoom the pics and see there is a lot of what looks like water curd where the motor joins the wet end (black plastic). I suspect a water leak and that could make the motor short out if the seal is bad. It looks like maybe a new smaller pump is in order.

Gary
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Speedbump

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On the switch thing Gary, I think they just picked them that way. What they are probably trying to do is give an indication of what goes where. I suppose they could have reversed them and it wouldn't make any difference.

But the wiring thing. I would never recommend anyone <plugging> a one horse motor into a wall socket. Kind of acts like an arc welder when done.

bob...
 

Gary Slusser

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That's what I always thought about the Load etc. being imprinted on the block etc. but then it could be they don't want the leads so close together to prevent arching. I see the insulation is off fairly far on the one wire.

The orange line doesn't show a plug, it comes up out of the pit but I agree, a plug for a 1 hp motor isn't a good idea.

Gary
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Speedbump

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"Its plugged into a 110 outlet, I did not check to make sure the motor was wired for 110 because I have to take it out or get a mirror and take the end cap off."

That's why I mentioned the plug in Gary. I remembered him saying the above. That's kind of a risky business on a motor that size. If the motor had been wired for 230 it would have been an even bigger load.

bob...
 

cashen

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oh, there is a plug.... the gauge on the small extension cord is 16 and thats about 4 ft long. the Orange wire you see has a plug on the end that plugs into the small extension cord noted above. i couldnt find the guage on the orange line you see.

Could the pressure regulator on the pump have anything to do with this? When plugged in the pressure on the gauge shoots up to above 60.

btw, this is a 40/60 switch.
 

Speedbump

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The pressure regulator if we are talking about the little plastic screw that can't be seen in the picture is for priming only. It won't hold steady after the system is up and running. Another thing I like about plastic pumps. But it will have nothing to do with the electrical.

bob...
 

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I agree that the wires don't necessarily have to go inside/outside like I described above, but I figure for most diy'ers that don't mess with this stuff on a daily basis it's better to keep it straightforward.
A number of big box stores around here sell pumps. There have been numerous times that I've went out on service calls to find that either the switch is wired wrong, or the voltage is incorrect on new pumps.
Ron
 

Speedbump

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I hear ya Ron,

They just finished a home depot down the road to the north and Lowes is going up to the south of me.

I guess I had better start packing.

bob...
 

Gary Slusser

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If this has been plugged into an extension cord, that's part of the problem. But what is the electrical box on the wall of the pit for?

There is no pressure regulator, there's a pressure gauge and a switch that burned up.

I say you need a new pump and the line coming out the side of the pump and leaning against the wall of the pit down to where it goes out through the wall all needs to be replaced and straightened up.

If that's water in the pit, then a leak may have caused the pump to cycle on/off when you weren't using water, that overheated things and the switch melted. And if it's water, that layed over line is probably leaking down where it goes out through the wall. Someone used PE tubing over the smooth end of galvanized nipples instead of insert/barbed fittings. The same as the pressure line out the end of the pump. I'd replace everything from the wall to the pump. The layed over line is the suction side; although it still has pressure in it.

Ron, I've seen the same thing but thought maybe there was another reason for labeling the switch. Maybe like keeping the always hot wires in the middle away from the edges. That's the way his Sears pump is wired; motor pigtails outside. But I can't recall how the labeling goes.

Gary
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Gary,
I don't recall how they are actually labeled either. I just do 'em the same way every time. Maybe it's just my way to keep it straight in my own sometimes forgetful mind..haha
As Gary and Speedbump have both said, I would like to see Cashen redo the whole thing and make it right (for safety reasons if nothing else).
Ron
 

cashen

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OK!

I just got my 2nd switch installed. Started fine, BUT there are visual sparks coming from the leads at the pressure switch. The severity of the sparks got worse when I played with the plastic regulator screw on the front. I also closed the input to the house, so it should have just been pressurizing the tank, not feeding the house through that huge line…. I noticed when I removed the black hose from the pump to the pressure switch, some rusty colored water came out. Could it be plugged? Could the vibration from the motor cause the chattering?
 

Speedbump

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In the picture I can't see where the pressure switch tubing is hooked up. The pressure regulator you are referring to is the "plastic pumps" idea of a backpressure control. It is nothing more than a valve that stops the water from the pump entering the tank when closed. If the pressure switch is plumbed into the pump side of that valve, it will hammer the switch to death (I think you know what I mean by "To death") when you run that screw all the way in. That screw is only used on a "plastic pump" to get the initial prime. After the pump primes up, let the screw all the way out. And leave it there.


If the tank is waterlogged, which is almost certain, this will hammer the switch also causing the same problem. Shutting the main valve off will make the switch hammer also.

I still recommend getting the whole thing up top, installing a quality bladder tank and getting rid of that mix of galvanized, pvc and poly all in one.

bob..
 
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