"Potential Starting Relay"

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by lzenglish, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Hello All. Can Anyone Cross referance my Well Control Box Potential Starting Relay, to a 50 amp points rating, verses my 35 amp one? I Now have an "ELECTRICA" PN#
    RVA 2AL KL Starting relay for my 3hp pump. I want a Starting relay with the same specs/ PU-224-252, and DO-40-105, (or close to it. Except I want one with a 50 amp points rating), verses my 35 amp rating, that I now have. Also the better the material the points are made out of would be nice!!!! Any Brand will do! Any Ideas, or part numbers would be appreciated!

    Thanks,

    lzenglish
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2009
  2. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    Why? Upsizing the relay could lead to frying the pump motor.
  3. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Why? That is a long story, lets just say because I want too! Now I assure you I have not, and would never, Jumper my thermal overload switch (that protects the pump from frying), or increase my circut breaker amp size (which also protects the pump from frying). If you have an (Air Maker System), with an (AVC), and snifter valve etc., you would know that it is inevitable the AVC will go bad, or the tank will water log at least every now and then. When it does it short cycles, when it short cycles, the starting relay points (Pit), until the themal overload can trip. Once this happens, the points are never the same on a cheapo Relay. As long as the pick-up, and drop-out votages are the same, it does not matter how big I go on the size, and quality of the points.
  4. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    In that case then I would head on over to grainger supplies web site. they probably have what you need.
  5. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Hello again, and thanks for your replies! As far a Grainger goes, I have had an account with them since 1975, and they are good people, but do not have the technical knowlege that I need, (And do not list the relay I'm seeking). This is the reason I have posted this thread. If I get no (cross referance responses), I will start calling the manufactures, on Monday. Just thought I would try to save a few bucks on phone calls!

    Wayne

    Senior Stationary Engineer(retired)
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2009
  6. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    How about Siemans ?
  7. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks, I will put them on my list to call!

    Take care,

    Wayne
  8. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  9. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks for the Link !

    Wayne
  10. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    MD
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2009
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The AVC only lets out excess air. If the tank gets water logged, it is because the above ground check valve, schrader valve, or the bleeder orifice in the well is not working properly. Larger contacts will help a little but, nothing can survive the electrical arcing that happens when the switch pops open and closed from a water logged tank. And if your switch is seeing this kind of damage, just imagine the damage to the motor. Solve the problem, not the symptom. There are devices like the Cycle Sensor that will shut the pump down before there is a problem.

    See this link;
    http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/prod_sensor_geninfo.html
  12. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks. I have found a relay! I understand your point, but, but I think my New Heavy Duty Relay, will give me a more Reliable system. The pump is only 5 years old, and Not a (Big Box Store) drop in. Have you ever bought a (Heavy duty Device of any Kind)? I think a 35 amp rating is too small anyway, otherwise, why would they offer a 50 amp one? I cannot bunk out at the well house, if I could, I guess I would! Now my friend, what would you suggest, with a New tank, New Commercial grade, Psi Cycling Control, New Snifter valve, New AVC, No leaks, Proper Voltage, Tight Connections etc.? I do what I think I can, without breaking the rules, (such as bypasing Saftey Devices, That I have stated ! What would You say is the underlying Probem? Move? (just kidding)

    lzenglish

    PS Yes the AVC Only lets Air Out., If it is not fowled, or plugged! I Know this very well, as I have replaced Many of them!
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,473
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The check valve that the Schrader screws into is the most important part. I don’t see where you replaced it. If this check valve doesn’t close properly, none of the other parts for the air charge system will work. Just using larger contacts, (that are meant for larger horse power pumps), will only move the problem further down the line. Probably to the 5 year old pump that may not last much longer. This has always been the main problem with air charge systems, which is why they made bladder tanks, so you don’t need all those little air charge parts that will fail. A device like the Cycle Sensor that looks for a rapid cycle and shuts the pump off before there is a problem would be safer for the pump and would keep the points from burning.
  14. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks for your reply, Yes The Control Valve was replaced one Year ago! And is a (Very Top Grade One).!

    Take Care,

    Wayne

    PS. A Well and Septic is a Beautiful Thing, as long as it Works!!!!!!!!!!
    One plus, is that I'm a retired Senior Stationay Engineer, (that was Not handed to me at birth)!, But I'm not a Well Expert, as You people are, and I need all the advise I can get, and do very much appreciate Your advice, and keep it Coming please !!!!! Sorry about my bad spelling!
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  15. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    A 3hp motor should only draw between 15 and 18 amps so a 35 amp contactor is more than ample. Arcing points is arcing points no matter what the contactor is rated at and if the arcing continues it will burn up the 50 amp in the same amount of time. V-man is correct here, there is an underlying problem that has to be solved first.
  16. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    You are wrong my firend!!!!!!!! Their is (Staring Amp Draw),( By the way all Are Good) and (Potential Staring relay,"(Intermitent)" (point Chatter) cased by many other things, (such as Short cylcyling, due to many thinngs), such as a wife who uses the water hose, without knowing the (short cycling effect),ie, on/off, (on/off), or the earwig in one of the contactors, or the Grandson playing with the hose. Keep and open mind here!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the Bottom line Here, is We are talkinng a about a (Potentenial Starting Relat), Not a (Contactor)!!!!!

    PS My Contactor is Fine, Thanks !!
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  17. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    starting amperage is momentary and if the contacts are closed properly will have zero effect on them and if starting and stopping the water is causing the relay to chatter there is, as V-man so aptly put it, something else going on. The relay (potential or otherwise) should not chatter at any time. Oh and earwigs and such generally get fried.
  18. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    Well, All Volts, and amps are withen the limits, (or below), ! Be it start, or run!
  19. lzenglish

    lzenglish New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    CA
    YOU Guys Have "ONLY" Shown me Smoke and Mears so FAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I see allot of bad mouthing for going to 50 amp points,on my starting relay, (Witch works like a Silk Purse, so far,) but thats about it !!!!!!

    QUOTE=nhmaster;224009]starting amperage is momentary and if the contacts are closed properly will have zero effect on them and if starting and stopping the water is causing the relay to chatter there is, as V-man so aptly put it, something else going on. The relay (potential or otherwise) should not chatter at any time. Oh and earwigs and such generally get fried.[/QUOTE]
  20. upper

    upper DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    Zenglish,Starve a cold,feed a fever.....Upper
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