Possible to replace bladderless tank with bladder-type tank?

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mh718

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My well tank (a bladderless type) with a float mechanism to control air level just sprung a big leak (appears to have rusted through at the bottom). I shut everything down and called my local (very good) plumber for repair. He said, "yup, you need a new tank". I wanted to know if it could be replaced with a different type of tank with the bladder (better?). He said it couldn't because of the "blow back" type of pump I have. Something about the tank blowing water back to the well when it's full? And this requires the bladderless tank?

In my mind, a tank is there to provide pressure to the system. I was not aware of it performing any other function. Can someone who understands this explain to me what he is talking about?

My goal is to get the lowest maintenance tank possible (I had all kinds of problems with the old one always getting waterlogged until I realized it did not have a float in place--fixed that--and it was working well afterwards until now.) We have very rusty water. Would be curious to know if that is coming from the well or maybe from a cruddy tank/pipes.

Much appreciated.
 

Reach4

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Your current system probably has
  1. A check valve before the pressure tank to keep water from the tank from maintaining pressure in the drop pipe.
  2. A snifter valve to admit air when there is a vacuum at that point
  3. A bleeder down the downpipe about 5 to 10 feet.
  4. An air release valve in the pressure tank.
When the pump has stopped, the pressure drops at the bleeder. I maintain there has to be a small leak all of the time for the pressure to have dropped. Then when the pressure gets low enough, the bleeder opens for real to let water above to drain back into the well. The pressure at the snifter valve drops to a vacuum, and the snifter admits air. Thus you have a section of pipe filled with air.

As the water gets used in the house, the air in the pressure tank expands to maintain pressure on the water. If there is too much air, the excess air gets released. When the pressure drops to the cut-on pressure, the pump goes on. The water column is driven upward, driving the charge of air with it. The snifter and bleeder close. The air followed by water is driven into the pressure tank.

Ideally, to replace the pressure tank with a precharged tank, you would remove the bleeder and snifter. You might not have to do this. If you remove the topside check valve, the pressure tank will keep pressure in the drop pipe. If the bleeder is working as it should, the pressure stays high enough to keep the bleeder from bleeding much water. If there is a small amount of leakage, the pressure tank makes up for it until the pump starts to refill the pressure tank. That pump start may be rare.. If you don't use water, would that be once per hour, once per day or once per week? I don't know. The bigger the pressure tank, the less often the pump would need to turn on to compensate for the bleeder leakage. The snifter valve should stay closed because there is no vacuum.

So in answer to your question, if you remove the check valve, I think you could go to a precharged tank with no further change. If you ever had the pump pulled, you would get the bleeder and snifter removed.

In the picture below, the snifter valve is shown in the well casing. I was thinking they were usually above ground, but I could be wrong.


index.php

I found this picture in https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pressure-tank-install-questions.38094/ I am not a pro.
 

mh718

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Wow. That's a lot of info. I think I figured out what the plumber was talking about. I think I must have a "jet pump" and not a submersible pump. Not sure how deep the well is. At any rate, the tank I have is this one: ProSource AW42-01 epoxy-lined tank (http://www.sta-rite.com/ResidentialProduct_sr_ws_tk_AW30H.aspx), an "air over water" tank.

On that website they talk a lot about replacing all the parts with the same exact parts when things break--maybe these are delicately balanced systems and it's best not to mess with what is working? Anyone ever heard that? Or is there some real issue with using a bladder tank with a jet pump?
 

mh718

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Wow. That's a lot of info. I think I figured out what the plumber was talking about. I think I must have a "jet pump" and not a submersible pump. Not sure how deep the well is. At any rate, the tank I have is this one: ProSource AW42-01 epoxy-lined tank (http://www.sta-rite.com/ResidentialProduct_sr_ws_tk_AW30H.aspx), an "air over water" tank.

On that website they talk a lot about replacing all the parts with the same exact parts when things break--maybe these are delicately balanced systems and it's best not to mess with what is working? Anyone ever heard that? Or is there some real issue with using a bladder tank with a jet pump?

And thanks, Reach4. It appears the schraeder is part of the jet pump and if the tank is sort of working with the pump to maintain the correct pressure, maybe the plumber just thinks it's not worth the trouble to try and fuss with replacing with a bladder tank. The pre-charged pressure might mess up the balance? Maybe it's not worth it since the existing tank had been there for at least 11 years, probably 15. They only have a 3 year warranty...
 

Reach4

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A jet pump would be above ground. Do you have a pump above ground? And if so, how many pipes go down the well? Maybe post a photo showing the pump and the pipes.
 

Cacher_Chick

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The system you have is often installed with good reason, and when it works properly, there is very little reason to change it. Non-bladder tanks cost less up-front and last longer than the average bladder tank. Unless you plan to pull the drop pipe in the well and remove the bleeders, just put in a new stanard tank with a new air-release valve and leave it be.
 

mh718

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The system you have is often installed with good reason, and when it works properly, there is very little reason to change it. Non-bladder tanks cost less up-front and last longer than the average bladder tank. Unless you plan to pull the drop pipe in the well and remove the bleeders, just put in a new stanard tank with a new air-release valve and leave it be.
Thanks! I'm not going to second guess it. Will let them replace like for like.
 

mh718

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A jet pump would be above ground. Do you have a pump above ground? And if so, how many pipes go down the well? Maybe post a photo showing the pump and the pipes.
Yes. It sticks up. I'm not there now. I think the point is moot. I'm going to let the plumber do as he said he would. It lasted this long; I'll be happy with another 11-15 years.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Much like water heater tanks, they don't make them like they used to. The average life expectancy for new tanks is 7-10 years. The one that was installed in my house in 1965 made it until 2006. The only reason I took it out is because it was half full of precipitated iron.
 
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