Plumbing Remodel Configuration: advice/feedback needed

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by remodelingit, Jun 11, 2005.

  1. remodelingit

    remodelingit New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Texas
    I am remodeling our master bath and would appreciate some advice/feedback on my proposed plumbing configuration. My picture below depicts the configuration I have come up with after doing a fair amount of research including reviews of others' questions on this board.

    The facts of my situation are as follows:

    -pier and beam house
    -pictured configuration depicts drainage and venting for shower, toilet and a lavatory
    -floor level is where the closet flange is
    -toilet drains using long sloping elbow (not obvious in pictures)
    -re-vent for toilet is greater than 6†above highest flood level (the lavatory) and connects to 2†stack using inverted sanitary tee (not exactly clear in the picture)
    -stack shown will be in an exterior wall, hence the off-sets needed to get over and above the concrete footing
    -can only have one 2" stack up the wall due to structural limitations in the attic (the stack in the picture will be going through an existing vent hole in the roof - the picture does not show continuation of 2" vent pipe due to height limitations for taking the picture)
    -3" PVC drain will connect to 3" cast iron drain line 3' straight beyond the horizontal wye on the floor in the picture
    -shower trap is 5 1/2 feet away from the vent using 2" PVC and will be sloped downward 1/4†per foot toward the vent/drain
    -lavatory is 30" from vent using 1 1/2" PVC (that's the piece branching off to the right- p-trap will be installed for lavatory but is not shown in picture)

    Advice from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

    Sorry for the lousy photo quality- I'm not sure how to make the file size smaller without losing so much detail.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The shower drain should not be more than 60" before the vent.

    The previous picture I saw, had the pipe turning down before the vent with a wye fitting. It should have been a Santee there.
    The trap arm needs to be straight to the vent, or it becomes an illegal "S" trap.

    Where you jogged around the beams looked fine.
    You can use 45's on the veritical.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2005
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    The shower drain connection to the riser has to be a sanitary tee, not the Y and 1/8 bend you have installed, nor a combination Y-1/8 bend.
  4. remodelingit

    remodelingit New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks for the feedback. So, it looks like I need to correct two things:

    1- the length of the shower trap arm needs to be no greater than 5 feet to the vent

    2- where the trap arm enters the vent/drain, I need to change out the wye fitting with a sanitary tee?

    Am I understanding your advice correctly?

    A couple of follow-up questions:

    1- What is the proper way to measure the distance from the shower trap to the vent- is if from the center of the shower drain to the center of the vent or is it from the exit point of the p-trap to the center of the vent.

    2- What will go wrong if I leave it at 5 1/2' other than it being non-compliant? Can I get away with 6 measly inches? (BTW I measured 5 1/2' from the exit point of the p-trap to the center of the vent based on critical distance measurements pictured in a DIY book that I have my doubts about)

    Thanks - much appreciated!

    Terry, this is an excellent site! Thanks.
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Trap arms are measured from the start of the straight run after the p-trap, to the the start of the vent pipe.
    If you look at the trap arm with grade, max allowed distance is based how far you can go without creating a siphon in the line when water is present.
    If the distance is too long, the trap will siphon.
    You can always cheat on this, but why would you?
    this is for your protection.
    The point of this, is to create a system that works as per design, keeping odor out of the home.
    A plumber would find a way to do it right, and plumbing inspectors are there to make sure he's doing it right.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2005
  6. remodelingit

    remodelingit New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks Terry.

    I hear what you are saying, I don't want to do a shabby, non-compliant job - not my style.

    Would it be legal for me to have the shower drain directly to the horizontal 3" drain pipe using a wye and vent horizontally just after the trap to where I have the pipe running in the picture using an inverted santee instead of the pictured wye? In other words, the pictured shower drain branch would becom a vent branch using a santee instead of a wye and the shower would drain into the pictured 3" drain line using a 3X2 wye.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2005
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I don't think you mean inverted santee.

    Replacing the wye with a santee would work in the vertical position.

    The vents must tie in six inches above the flood level of the fixtures.
    You would need to bring both vents up the wall and tie together at (42") from the floor to be safe.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2005
  8. remodelingit

    remodelingit New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Texas
    How about this?

    OK- based on advice provided, here is what I've come up with. Hopefully this time I've got it right. Comments from the pros would be greatly appreciated.

    The only difference is from the original configuration is the way the shower is vented and drains- it was changed since the shower drain was greater than 60" to the vent in the original plan.



    PS - Sorry for the poor picture quality- I still don't know how to get a good quality pic in such a small file size- shooting with an 8MP camera...

    Attached Files:

  9. your vent is wrong...

    I dont know what you are tieing in here,

    but that revent from the shower should be going up at least 6 inches

    above the flood rim of the lavatory above...
    not tied in down low with a reverse tee


    it can cause trouble if either the shower would ever stop up ,
    it could back up the
    line and go down the lav drain or
    if the lav drain would stop up
    it would go back through the shower vent....

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    I hate to be a pain to everybody here ,

    but in your original pictures I looked at
    that plan and design would have worked just fine in Indiana.....
    or you could have tied that
    shower into the revent for the toilet and that would have been ok too..

    I guess its all in where you live......
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2005
  10. remodelingit

    remodelingit New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Texas
    Follow-up question

    Thanks Mark. Do you mean the 60" distance rule doesn't apply in Indiana? That's why I came up with the second reconfiguration.

    Question for all: Should I just bite the bullet and run the vent for the shower up another wall and join it to the lavatory/toilet vent in the attic (which would be way more than 6" above the flood rim of the lavatory)? I'm trying to avoid that, but if that is the simplest, most logical trouble free, I'll do that. Access within the attic is not a problem since the drywall on the ceiling is off.

    Thanks,

    JPB
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I don't know what plumbing code prevails in Indiana, but many other places, the 60 inch rule still applies on 2".

    Vents are always tied together higher than the fixtures, You don't even have to tie them together, you could put each vent through the roof separately.
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    vent

    Just disconnect the shower vent from the sink drain and run it parallel to the drain, or toilet vent, and then tie it in between or next to the other two when you get up to that level.
  13. remodelingit

    remodelingit New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks for the speedy responses. Should I use an upside down sanitary cross (if that's what it's called) and join the toilet vent(left) to the lavatory vent(center) and the shower vent(right)?

    JPB
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2005
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    vent

    You can do that or insert a tee between the lavatory vent and the toilet vent. How you do it is immaterial as long as it is connected at or above the point where the other two are joined together.
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,019
    Location:
    New England
    Once you get a little ways up in a vent, it normally doesn't have water in it...you are only allowing air to move, thus normal right-angle connections are fine.

Share This Page