Plumbing natural gas from meter to range

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by bobwilli, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. bobwilli

    bobwilli New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    Is there a recommended flexible synthetic gas piping that can be used connect to the black pipe at the meter to bring natural gas from the meter though a concrete wall into the basement?

    If so, what size is recommended?

    How does one connect to the black pipe?

    I want to plumb for a gas range up through the basement ceiling to the first floor for a range. Is there a fitting I should install in the floor where the pipe comes through the floor for the copper flex tubing from the range to connect to?

    I appreciate you experienced folks helping out us amateurs!
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You didn't mention what state you are from. There are places where a homeowner is allowed to do work, including gas piping. There are places where this is absolutely fordidden. But in ALL CASES....EVERYWHERE.....gas work requires a permit. Your questions would indicate you may not have the skills necessary to do this work:
    > Flex pipe is generally NOT used for gas work. There is a special coated stainless steel flex, but even to purchase it requires a training certificate.
    > Flex pipe would not be used exposed to the elements, or to possible damage. It would not run through a concrete wall.
    > There must be gas valve in the same room as the stove. Copper tubing is generally NOT used. The flexible appliance connectors are usually stainless steel.
    > Connections to black gas pipe involve threading the pipe, and in the meter area, unions are often used. The union is connected to threaded pipe.
  3. bobwilli

    bobwilli New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    I'm in Salem, Oregon. You're right, I am inexperienced in plumbing, but am rather handy. I've pulled an electrical permit and wired additional outlets, and I've worked in an RV factory installing gas appliances and testing propane lines in quality control. Thanks for answering my questions. One of the plumbing contractors I asked to bid the project indicated he would run flexible synthetic pipe from the meter through the wall, which is in a crawl-space, the reason I asked. I'll have to ask him more about this. I would get a permit for the project.

    Is this a shut-off valve?

    Another question, if i may: What kind of sealant would be used on the black pipe threads?

    Thanks, again, for your help.
  4. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yes, a gas shut off valve must be located close to the appliance. There are any number of pipe thread sealants. You can use yellow teflon tape, you can use Oatey regular or Great White, or RectorSeal #5, T+2, or True Blue, or Hercules Megaloc or real-tuf.

    And whatever flex the plumber was talking about is only sold to licensed professionals. It requires special techniques, and possibly special tools (fusion welder?)..

    Note that the flexible appliance connectors you buy at the hardware store (a) are limited in length to 6' maximum, and (b) absolutely are prohibited to run through a wall or through the floor.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,522
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    NONE of the legitimate suppliers of flexible gas pipe, and it would be stainless steel NOT plastic, are allowed to sell it to anyone except licensed contractors who have attended the installation seminars.
  6. MACPLUMB 777

    MACPLUMB 777 TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, United States
    TO " FOREST GUMP " IN SALEM, OREGON ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING ? ? ? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES,
    THIS IS LIKE THE MAN WHO WANTED TO DO HIS OWN BRAIN SURGERY
    BUT HE FORGOT WHAT HE WAS DOING IN THE MIDDLE OF IT !
    I WOULD GIVE YOU ADVICE FOR MOST ANYTHING IN PLUMBING BUT YOU NEED TO STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW AND GAS PIPING IS NOT IT ! !

    http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-house-explosion-021710,0,4789766.story
  7. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,334
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    A leak in a water pipe makes a mess, but it can be repaired and nobody dies. A leak in a gas pipe can cause a big boom and everyone dies. Get professional help on this one.
  8. bobwilli

    bobwilli New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    Thanks for your advice. I think I will get a professional to do the job. The shouting of MACPLUMB777 wasn't necessary, but I hear your concern. :)
  9. jeffeverde

    jeffeverde New Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    L.A.
    "Coated stainless steel"? Doesn't SDG&E use the same yellow PE tubing that SoCal Gas has for the past -oh- 50 years or so (according to industry figures, 90% of all natural gas distribution line is PE)? On the customer side of the meter, it's also common to use PE to supply large volume fixtures like pool heaters.

    That said, it's not a consumer product and (to the best of my knowledge) is only approved for buried applications. I just wanted to clarify that the OP wasn't entirely off base when he asked about "flexible synthetic gas piping" - only about it's use above ground.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  10. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    I do not know what the SDGE does in the streets. All I have ever found in the older neighborhoods was iron pipe from the street, and CSST is not being used inside residential, at least I haven't seen it, but I am an old fart, mostly retired, and no new construction. I don't have a cell phone camera and I don't do CSST!!!!!!!!!!
  11. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    Jimbo and HJ, I hate to post this but anybody can now get csst from Lowes and Home Depot, no license required. Ain't that a kick in the tooth?
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,522
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    They also sell many products that are not "code legal", but they are not concerned with HOW people use their products, just that they buy them in the first place. PE gas piping is ONLY allowed when it is buried at least 20 inches below the surface, has a "trace wire" with it, usually NOT under any outdoor concrete surface, (unless sleeved), AND has the proper metal termination where it exits the ground. It is NOT for use INSIDE a structure ANYWHERE.
  13. pmayer

    pmayer New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Minnesota
    this is great info. I was just at my local home center yesterday, and I told the guy I needed a longer gas line than the 25' that came in the gas fireplace installation kit, and he recommended CSST. I had never seen or heard of the stuff before. Glad I didn't get it. :)
  14. Fubar411

    Fubar411 New Member

    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    I'm amazed at how bad the current black pipe fittings and threading are. Not to mention how expensive it is. I picked up 4' of 3/4" for $12 the other day, neglecting to look at the threads. When I got home and took off the plastic ends, the threads had obviously been cut off kilter.

    I understand wanting to push mfg overseas, but charging that much for a very low quality pipe that will be used to hold a flamable gas is unacceptable.
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