Plumbing definitions and Plans review officials

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by FloridaOrange, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    I have an odd situation. A local plans reviewer (in only one of the five jurisdictions I do work in) calls any vertical sanitary coming out of the slab a waste stack. With his definition he requires a stack cleanout at below every sink, drinking fountain and urinal. This issue comes up with single story buildings (no basements down here). I've pointed out to him the definitions found within the code which are:

    Stack: A general term for any verrtical line of soil, waste, vent or inside conductor pipiing that extends through at least one story with or without offsets.

    Stack Vent: The extension of a soil or waste stack above the highest horizontal drain connected to the stack.

    The code that he references is:
    FPC (Florida Plumbing Code) 2004 708.3.4 - A cleanout shall be provided at the base of each waste or soil stack.

    I've been designing plumbing systems for about 7 years now. I was trained by a master plumber and generally I know the plumbing code and general design issues better than most engineers in this area. I have never put a stack cleanout at the base of a urinal, lavatory or water cooler in a single story building! (Exceptions being trap cleanout plugs for specialized uses).

    Sorry for the long post and I appreciate your interest, these are my questions:

    Has anybody had to deal with an issue like this? If so, were you able to handle it without having to comply with a boneheaded official.

    Does anybody have any further definitions or points of view that may help me to deal with this? To get plans through this jurisdiction I've been complying with his request but it's getting ridiculous and potentially expensive on larger projects.


    TIA -

    Matt
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,819
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    cleanouts

    Even if they were not required, I ALWAYS install cleanouts in the locations you mention. It saves having to disassemble drains or fixtures when they have to be snaked. But that is beside the point, since our inspectors DO require them anyway. Their general view is that a cleanout is required at/under every fixture that is more than 4' from the main line connection.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  3. Racer814

    Racer814 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    they are required in NC also.

    I seldom ever use them though...if I have a sink drain full of back up and take off that c/o, I got a mess on the homeowners floor...I have to dump the trap in a bucket so I snake it there...
  4. Racer814

    Racer814 New Member

    Messages:
    124
    besides, you aren't going to get ANYWHERE with that official........except grief from here on out....this is such a small issue anyway....it's better to pick your battles
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,819
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    cleanout

    You still have to get rid of the water in the sink before you pull the trap. And that is why most of our cleanouts are turned to the outside so you do not make a mess inside the house. A side benefit is that you can run the sink while snaking the line so you know when it is opened, and the flowing water flushes the drain.
  6. cleanouts

    Cleanouts are good to have....but can add to expences....

    On residential...When I do a laundry box in a wall I usually
    like to put the clean out next to or above
    box itself........ it looks ok and I have no complaints....

    it makes it so easy whe you dont have to
    pull out the FULL washing machine...


    they are not required anywhere except outside the home in
    this state. They claim that all traps are technically the clean outs
    and the toilet technically is a clean out too....

    you just got to take it up.....


    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    but like the one fellow just stated

    I would maybe argue with the guy if it were just
    a re-vent or vent of some nature...

    but its best to pick the battles you can win and keep

    "Barney Fife" happy.....
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  7. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Thanks for the replies guys. Down here I've only spec'd them on stacks that actually go up to a second floor, never spec'd them for a single story (commercial) building.

    If anything, I know what comments to expect from this one reviewer.....maybe it'll keep them from coming up with more "off the wall" comments.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,819
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    co's

    they are not required anywhere except outside the home in
    this state. They claim that all traps are technically the clean outs

    and the toilet technically is a clean out too....

    That is a statement that would only be made by someone who has never, never had to clean any drain.
  9. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Alabama
    good holy moly Mark... have you never cleaned a drain????:D
  10. srdenny

    srdenny Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Be thankful your reviewer isn't asking for more. In one of the jurisdictions I work in they are requiring engineered or design built layouts showing waste and water on all commercial permits, even one fixture TI's.
  11. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    We are required to do the same as well. I'm not complaining - it makes me money and real good money when it's done as a side project. Lots of construction down here and hopefully it won't slow too much with the current economy.
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