Plumbers STUMPED!! Sprinklers causing Airlock in Hot Water tank

[WJcandee]

there are no heat trap nipples on the top of your heater,

RUUD's operation manual seems to indicate that this kind of heater will have either internal or external heat traps. Could there be one just inside the heater under the transition nipple?

 

[Smooky]

Could be something similar to this:
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/rheem-ap10769-1.html
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/rheem-ap11627f.html


FYI -Rheem Manufacturing Company also produces and sells products under the Ruud brand name.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WJcandee]

Just as a follow-up, I think you're going to find that it's the heat trap, either on the cold side or the hot side. Here's a link to the installation/owner's manual for the water heater, which indicates pretty clearly that it has internal heat traps (look at the diagram on p. 19). Look for a sticker on it by the guy who installed it (which is why I always think that for any plumber or electrician, investing in a roll of a few thousand of those stickers that you then put everywhere you possibly can at the customer's premises is something that will pay back repeatedly over the years). The warranty may be as long as ten years. Regardless, if he put it in he can get parts for it, or you can call the RUUD customer service number on p.21, with the information in hand that they tell you to have in hand, and they will tell you who the local parts supplier is and who local plumbers who regularly deal with their products are, and you can call one of them, describe the symptoms, suggest what you (we) think may be happening, and see if one of them doesn't have interest in maybe repairing it. Or find out from Ruud who, if anyone, is their national repair organization (like A&E or others). http://www.ruud.com/documents/pacemaker-electric-residential-electric-use-and-care-manual

But just keep in mind that Sears will sell you an okay 50-gallon electric water heater with 6-year warranty and two 4500-watt electric elements (like yours) for $386.99 and deliver and install it for another $220, so $600-ish total, something that you can order and set up entirely-online. So $600 for a brand-new unit installed is what you're comparing the repair price to. Say $25 at Online for the Ruud heat traps, if that's the right part, higher from the plumber/repair guy by a factor of two and maybe 3, plus labor, which might be $100 or might be a good bit more. So if I'm looking at $300-400 for someone to come repair the thing...I'm gonna feel stupid if my 10-year-0ld water heater cracks within a year. But if I can get it done for $200-ish all-in, it's probably worth doing.

 

[Widgit Maker]

Here is an easy thing to do.
Close the stop valve on cold water input of the water heater before the sprinklers come on. Open after sprinklers stop. If that eliminates the stopage of hot water that would pretty much confirm that you have defective heat trap. With CPVC piping replacement should be an easy task.

 

[shadowstar57]

Mighty thanks to everyone for their help!! The great thing is when I posted initial question, I had nowhere to start, but now I have a few options to look into. Worst case is replacement, but as stated, it is due anyway, but at least I can say I gave it a try before sending it off.

You guys are pretty damn awesome!!

 

[WJcandee]

Someone on here who has dissected a water heater before can probably tell us, but I was wondering whether it wouldn't be possible to remove the input line and/or output line and try to use something like a bottle brush 2 to clean the track in which the ball that operates the heat trap sits. If we're assuming that something is crystallized on there, aybe brushing it would clear out whatever it is that's causing the ball to stick. Or maybe not. Sometimes there are good reasons that bright ideas are not so bright. But that would be a $5 fix if it worked.

 

[Widgit Maker]

But that would be a $5 fix if it worked.

But replacing them is only a $10-15 fix.

 

[Jadnashua]

They aid in overall efficiency, they're not expensive, some people just remove them, there are different designs less likely to cause those issues (flaps verses ball valves, but no idea about longevity on them).

 

[steve shaw]

This website saved my sanity and my wallet. I too had a clogged water heater. And it's not old, wasn't showing any any other signs of poor performance. But every once in a while it we would have no hot water. Leaving the faucets open like some other posts didn't work for me. My only temporary solution was to climb up and stick a screwdriver down the whole to unplug it. But a couple days later, clogged again! Too fast to be sediment build up. A plumber looked at it and said probably had some broken pieces inside clogging it up. But even that didn't make much sense. Then, in the winter when I wasn't running my sprinklers, no more clogging. Spring, summer, sprinklers running, clogged again! Still made no sense, but it let me to this forum. Almost word for word exactly what was driving me crazy. The picture of the inlet with the small ball was the answer! So my dad (a better DIY) and I got in there and basically ripped out the plastic part that holds the ball in place. He said they don't serve a great purpose. Pretty simple fix, we released all the water pressure first, drained the heater, turned off gas, etc. But I can't believe someone else was having the same exact issues. Hopefully this helps someone the same way you guys saved me.

 

[Smooky]

Great! glad it helped!

 

[Setanta6]

Appreciate the responses. I'm a newb, so apologies if missing info. It is city water, no hot water recirc (that I know of).

Since we moved here last year, hot water pressure was always terrible, and some days down to a trickle (cold water fine). One day (didn't recognize connection at the time) I had turned off the sprinklers for the winter, and some time later, the hot water just 'popped' one day flowing strong, and stayed running great. Until this week when I started sprinklers back on again.

This past Sunday night I ran the sprinklers for the first time, on Monday morning no hot water. I opened up all the hot water faucets in the house, and after a few minutes, 'pop', hot water flowing again. Same thing next day, sprinklers ran overnight, and in the morning, no hot water. Turned on all HW outlets, and hour later, 'pop', hot water out.

If its a valve sticking somewhere, where would those valves be located, how can I check? I'll pick up pressure gauge this weekend to test drain valve. I do remember months back I tried cleaning out the HW tank, and only trickle came out of drain. After a while, it finally started flowing out. Some sediment, not a ton, but now in retrospect, seems it might have 'popped' the air just like now. Water temp is very hot, even at lowest setting, so heater is working fine.

Seems to me the sprinkler system is introducing air somehow. Maybe it's closing too fast or too slow... Too much/little pressure...

anybody seen anything like this before?

I've had the exact same symptoms this summer with my hot water and this thread is the one that makes the most sense for solving the problem. Shadowstar57, have you had any luck in checking/replacing these hot water back flow valves?

 

[shadowstar57]

I echo all the compliments, all the info here turned out to be most helpful. After reading about these heat trap valves, all signs point to that being the culprit, it explains the loud sucking sound that is heard as soon as the sprinklers are turned on, and how the hot water remains shutout after the sprinklers are activated and makes the ball stick inside the heat traps.

That said, I took a bit different route to resolve this. Mine being a 10+ year old water heater, I did not want to risk damaging anything that would force complete replacement. So, after getting the hot water running again by opening all the hot water valves around the house and waiting for the air to pop and clear itself and the heat traps out, I have completely stopped using the sprinkler system. I never was a fan of all the water that is wasted by continuously watering grass, all the runoff that ends up on the street, and the added expense to my water bill. Being in Florida, I replaced the St Augustine grass that is so water hungry, with Bahiagrass that can survive on rain water, so no more need to use the sprinklers.

Since doing this, I'm not only saving about $40 per month on my water bill, but not once has the hot water issue returned, not once!! I also can't believe that there aren't more people having trouble with this, and how few solutions are out there, but in my case at least, this was definitely it. I highly recommend following the instructions given here and replacing those heat traps is you are experiencing similar symptoms.

Thanks again to everyone!

 

[Quicksipper]

When you have the problem, what pressure do you have at the WH drain valve? Those drain valves have a garden hose thread. You could get a screw-on pressure gauge, or you could just open the valve. You could hook a garden hose to that valve and open the valve to observe the flow. A pressure gauge would be under $20. Checking the pressure at the WH will determine if the problem is before the WH or after.

Well or city water? Do you have a hot water recirculation system?

That "airlock" for your water heater... I doubt there is such a thing. Sounds to me as if some check valve or mixing valve is sticking somehow.

Sorry to revive an old thread but I ran into this issue with my water heater...
Before running out and spending money on parts, try this;

Connect a cold water line to a hot water line (washing machine works great) turn on both faucets and let it run for about a minute, turn them off. Go to a sink in your house and see if the hot water works, if not repeat the process, in addition; flip the pressure relief valve on top of your water heater. Once you start hearing the air in the lines check your hot water at your sink, aparrently “airlock” is a thing and this remedied my problem repeat as many times if you think your having the same issue. (It took me quite a few tries but it worked)

 

[hj]

A pressurized system would NOT stop flowing due to an "air lock", because the pressure would just push it out to the faucet WITHOUT "stopping" the flow.

 

[Colepepper Plumbing]

Make sure you have a backflow preventer and a thermal expansion tank on your water heater. Its a closed loop system

 

[FullySprinklered]

Hello, I've had a couple of plumbers out here, and they left in defeat, stumped as to what is going on:

Every morning after the sprinkler runs, we have no hot water in the house (no drips, no noise, just nothing coming out of faucet). Cold water is fine. After much research in the forums, I narrowed it down to an airlock being created in hot water line (or electric HW tank) after the sprinklers turn on or off. Reason being, after I open up all the hot water outlets in the house for a while (sometimes hours), the hot water will suddenly 'pop' out and start flowing again.

I've got a 6 zone system, but only use 4 zones. Automatic controller. Run them for only about 5 minutes now everyday around 3:30am, one zone per day (2 zones on 2 days a week). Yesterday I tried closing the sprinkler's shut off valve about 50% to reduce the pressure, but no noticeable change. There's no hot water coming out of sprinklers.

Any ideas what could be going on here? Thanks for your help!

 

[FullySprinklered]

Sprinkler systems have absolutely nothing to do with plumbing. Sprinkler guy is a cub scout; plumber is a Navy Seal. It looks the same to someone who doesn't know the difference. My underwear is fruit of the loom in case you want to order it tonight at the restaurant.