Please - How Can I ( 64000 dollar Question )

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Mike Pastorelli, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Mike Pastorelli

    Mike Pastorelli New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Florida
    How can I take a 1 inch dia concrete drill bit and drill down 100' using a standard 1/2 electric drill..
    I need to get through this limestone substrate.
  2. bcpumpguy

    bcpumpguy New Member

    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Langley BC
    Are you looking for a stupid answer?
  3. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Your drill must be bored for a high pressure water feed, the tip must be quite larger than the shank, and you need a monster hammer drill. Or rent one of those home well drilling rigs.
  4. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    Most anything you might use as an extension at that length would not drill in a straight line, nor would such a hammer drill apply the force adequately.
  5. Mike Pastorelli

    Mike Pastorelli New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Florida
    Just kicking around the idea.. All input is welcome.
    Here is where I'm at: REBAR for the shaft.. Maybe weld a carbide bit to the rebar and drill at 12' sections? Weld sticks together as needed - making length as you drill deeper and deeper.

    Poking holes in my ideas is always welcome.
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,133
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Good thing I drank all my coffee or it would be all over my computer screen. Mike has put forth a few hair-brained ideas before and this is one of them.

    The mass of a drill bit 100 feet long is more than any 1/2 inch hand drill could drive. I used to work on big drill rigs and know what sort of power it takes. Also, it takes a lot to lift out 100 feet of drill steel.
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,133
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    OK, here goes...

    REBAR is solid. You need something that is hollow to run air/water/slurry down. The water is required to carry up the drill cuttings. Drill rigs usually mix up a slurry that is much heavier than water and so will float the cuttings which are relatively lighter in the heavy slurry.

    12 foot sections would require that you have staging 12 feet high either movable or with multiple levels to stand on.

    Unless the bedrock is exposed, you first need to drill through the overburden and case it out. You also need to seal the casing into the bedrock.
  8. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  9. Mike Pastorelli

    Mike Pastorelli New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Florida
    Getting through the 20' of overburden is the easy part.. I can easily wash down a 2" PVC pipe.. Then there is the SW Florida coral rock ( coquina ) that needs to be drilled through. As you probably already know its calcium carbonate based and not very hard to bore a hole through. The weight of a rebar shaft / bit assembly can easily be overcome with a 4" x 4" gantry type set-up with pulleys. They also sell some high quality hammer drills out there that could make small work of calcium carbonate shell bedrock. Any ideas on a steel shaft that is readily available cheaply? 1/2 steel round? The objective with this post is to determine if something like this can be undertaken based on readily available items. Naysayers, go beat meat in some other forum.. I am only interested creative ideas from creative brains
  10. bcpumpguy

    bcpumpguy New Member

    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Langley BC
    Allright here it goes then, you cannot use a 1/2" concrete drill, as you said you are in need of creative ideas from creative brains (so you might just want to switch yours of). Use a gas drive auger. The problem with using a normal concrete bit is that it is hardened steel, have fun welding extensions to it they are simply just going to snap of right at the welds every time. You will need to fashion a bit of mild steel and heat treat after you have fashioned a way of securing to your drill stem. I would use 1" sched 40 steel pipe as drill stem. have fun...
  11. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,133
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    How do you plan to set and seal the casing into the bedrock so that you don't get surface water and silt into the casing?

    That still does nothing to reduce the mass. What hammer drill do you think will move the mass of 100 feet of drill steel? A tiny little hammer inside the drill won't telegraph down to the drill bit because of the mass. As I said, I worked on drill rigs and know what it takes.

    Good luck with that. This is a public forum and I can post to it even though I am a naysayer.

    How do you plan to carry the drill cuttings up out of the hole?
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  12. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,384
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    You sir, are totally and completely nuts. You also must be one cheap ass SOB. I hope none of your family ever needs brain surgery, you'd probably try to DIY that with a Dremel and vise grips.
  13. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    OK Guys, don't knock what you haven't done! I teach water well drilling internationally and we do what they say can't be done because we have too! I would change my thinking to cable tool drilling. Meaning using a heavy steel bar that will just fit inside the 2" PVC. The steel bar needs to be 10 to 150 pounds in weight and hardened to a blunt chisel on the bottom end (like a star drill concrete bit). Attach this to a cable (or rope), run the cable through a tri-pod and sheve at the top. Put five gallons or less water in the hole, raise and drop the steel bar six to 18 inches and drop it into the coral (lime rock)rock. Continuine doing this beating the rock into a mud. Then run a small bailer in the hole and bail out the mud, then repeat the process until you reach the depth that you want to go. This is a very slow but capable method of drilling rock. It's an old method that is still used today. . . but it is slow and labor intensive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6N0x8BnOKE.
  14. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,133
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    So, every 4 feet you need to trip out all the drill steel that according to the OP, he welded together. Then bail it out and weld the drill steel back together to resume drilling. I do realize that you propose using steel cable to avoid all the welding/rewelding.

    I'm surprised you can even go 4 feet in one round. In my experience in rotary drilling, if the air/water/slurry was ever stopped for 4 feet, the drill steel might never come back out and that'd get you fired. I was on one job where the previous driller not only jammed the drill steel but also drove the clay slurry up into the air motor of the hammer.
  15. Mike Pastorelli

    Mike Pastorelli New Member

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Florida
    BCpumpguy-
    Ok, the gas auger seems like the way to go and I will investigate this further.
    Porky - Not a bad way to go. I like this idea.
    I'll let you 2 guys know what I come up with.

    THREAD CLOSED DUE TO RIDICULE / NEGATIVE COMMENTS.
  16. bcpumpguy

    bcpumpguy New Member

    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Langley BC
    Closed you say? Personally i would not take it as ridicule, this is for your own safety. You have to understand that what you are playing with can seriously hurt you or innocent bystanders.
  17. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,133
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I'm not sure what he is conspiring to do is even legal in the state of Florida. He risks contaminating the aquifer by not properly sealing the casing into the bedrock possibly allowing surface water to leak in.
  18. justwater

    justwater Well Drilling/Service

    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    FL/GA
    its not legal.
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