Please help me choose a softener for a well with iron

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by scooby074, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    Staining, It will , with salt settings and gallon settings, cleaning settings dialed to your needs.
    Turbo would be a very good idea as it would give an extra to the cleaning cycle and make sure that ALL of the resin gets to spend time at the top of the resin column.

    Just put some iron out between the bags of salt and save a piece of equipment and the need for that resin cleaner..

    Leave room for a whole house big blue carbon filter, but for now run with out it and see if you need it, if you need it later you can always add it later, but one step at a time...

    Your well pump out put is the highest that you are going to hit.. ie if it has a max of 10gpm then that is the best that you would ever be able to do...

    Then over the next year or so get a home test kit from a box store or on line and check the untreated water like every 6 months to see if there is any changes to the water , then change the settings on the softener if needed.. and all will be good.
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The resin won't remove all the hardness when the constant SFR gpm of the volume of resin is exceeded.

    And I see you are saying that if the pump is a 10 gpm, he can't get more water than 10 gpm.... without knowing a lot about the well etc. that is false.

    Here is a pump chart to prove it:
    .
    pumpchart..jpg
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes a 1.5 cuft IF the number of bathrooms and type of fixtures don't require a higher constant SFR (service flow rating) or you need better salt efficiency. It will remove your 1 ppm of iron etc..

    No Turbulator is needed, you don't have enough iron to justify one and if you go with one you can not have a gravel underbed. Without the gravel underbed the pressure loss across the softener is higher than with one.

    Carbon is a great place to grow bacteria and you have well water with no disinfection. And so far you haven't mentioned any need for a carbon filter. So get the softener and see how the water tastes, if bad, then buy a 2 stage drinking water filter with an RO long reach swivel faucet installed on the counter.
  4. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    While there may not be the iron to justify... the turbutator Will keep the resin cleaner along with using ALL of the resin, unlike the normal dist that will only use 60% of the resin in the life of the system.
    Think of it as an up side down cone.. as the system treats the water the resin close to the dist is the first to get used and works its way down through the system, so that when the unit goes into a cleaning cycle not all of the resin is in need of cleaning there is resin that is still charged..
    With the turbo that is still going to happen, just that still charged resin is going to get worked into the rest of the bed and used in the next cleaning cycle.
    I have seen units with standard dist run out of salt and fall on its face, while units with the turbo run out of salt and while the water is not fully treated , there is still some treatment going on...
  5. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    Thought that we where talking about Peak flow, not constant flow... if I was doing 12 gpm flow 24/7 then it would be either a 2 cubic foot or 2.5 cubic foot and a 1.5 inch valve... and I most likely would dump the turbo because of a max flow of 17gpm. But the sizing of the unit would also have to work with the flow out put of the well pump....... only a fool puts a unit needing 12gpm backwash on a 7gpm well pump.
  6. scooby074

    scooby074 New Member

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    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    ill have to try and get the specs on the pump/\ cant say about the depth, but ill guess 60 ft. this is based on opinions from the softener reps.



    i can say its a 1/2 hp and its a jet pump. but actual GPM i have no idea.

    i wish i could tell you more, but the house was a repo.\il

    considering the whole place will be new, low flow fixtures i dont expect to exceed 12 gpm draw.

    so the turbo isnt recomended??? i thought it would be cheap insurence if it improved the resin bed operation.

    ill pass on the carbon until i know how the water tastes. an undercounter RO might even be a better idea at a later date
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  7. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    I doubt you will exceed 12 gpm either. I like to run a turbulator for all the reasons AK posted.
  8. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    A 1/2 horse Shallow well pump if the water was 5' down and you did 20PSI you could do 15gpm,,,, but really with what you are doing, where the water is at... you are most likely in the 6gpm range...

    Yes the turbo is cheap insurnance and gives better preforance from the resin and salt...
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes the upside down cone happens with all softeners that don't have a gravel underbed. Those that do have the gravel underbed don't have that problem.
  10. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    Gravel bed or no Gravel bed it is Going to happen...

    The path of least resistance is down the center of any unit.
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I said peak demand and constant SFR. The constant SFR is controlled by the volume of resin, nothing more. The 1.5 cuft of resin has a 12 gpm SFR, exceed the 12 gpm and the resin can't remove all the hardness.

    The pump chart I posted shows a 12 hp 10 gpm pump delivering 11 up to 16 gpm depending on the 'head' of the system, yet you disagree. What do you base the disagreement on other than the gpm rating of the pump, because that is shown to not be true?
  12. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    Trained in Pumps?
    I know that I am not, I have learned from well drillers with years under their belts.. but guess that mean nothing.

    1.5 can be pushed to 15gpm with pressure loss and leakage... did not say that it would not have that happen..

    The pump curves that you are showing are most likely SQ or SQE or even the SP... but the pump that most still have in the wells are not multi stage pumps.. thus the curves are different.
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Just regular submersible pumps. I did pump work for 18 years as a Goulds dealer.

    Again, I'm not talking max flow of the softener, I'm talking about the max flow the volume of resin can remove the hardness from on a consistent basis.
  14. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

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    What is the basis of your assertion? Is this based on published and verified data or just something you have made up?
  15. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Actually it is published because the figures were verified and if you were more than just a person with a softener, such as a knowledgeable water treatment dealer, you'd know where it is published and what I'm talking about..
  16. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

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    Until I see a citation for the reference I can only assume you have made it up.
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Actually the figures were verified and then published. And I cite those figures.

    Previously you have said you don't believe my figures and would use the resin manufactures' figures of 1-5 gpm/cuft. If you know anything about peak demand flow rates of houses, or how to calculate it, it is based on the number of fixtures and the type of those fixtures. If you had a peak demand of say 12 gpm for a 2.5 bathroom house with no big tub and one regular shower head in the showers, you would have to size a softener for that house at 3 cuft, right? How many 3.0 cuft softeners do you think are in that size house?
  18. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    I know of a couple,, they are Very nice houses with lots of water flow, and high iron and hardness.
    There are even some Bed and Breakfasts that are running that size..
    There is a Twin 3 cubic that is feeding a 4000 gallon tank that then feeds 5 right now more later what we call cabins, but realy are small vacation homes..
    They where sized based on well production, useage and water comp hardness.
  19. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I am talking the peak demand flow rate gpm of the house. Not how many gallons are used a day.
  20. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

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    Does the starter of this question have any clue as to what is going on?
    They are gone and we are over their head if they are still around..

    Depending on the Application as to how often Every point is going to be used at the same time... some it will never happen , others it might once a year while others might only it once every 10 years...

    There is a balance to find a point for any system, be it softener or other so that it can hit that peak but still do the normal every day runs with out causing problems by getting to big, to be sized soly based on that High end flow rate is going to be a head ache for the half flow of high end.
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