Pipes Hammer when pump cuts out

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jodan

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jodan

I just did a stupid stunt. I cut the power to the pump while it was on. When i turned it back on it didn't start back up. I have a franklin electric control box teh two reset buttons have been push. no luck. Any guesses
 

Speedbump

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Cutting the power to a pump while it is running would be no different than the pressure switch cutting it off.

Do you have an volt/ohm meter?

bob...
 

Randyj

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This is getting to be a pretty long thread...I am stupid about wells...but just thinking about a logical explanation...and have not read all of the posts... if the well is 398'..that means you got a heck of alot of pressure going toward the well when the pump shuts off...which tells me that a check valve is slamming shut and probablly need some kind of a heck of a muffler or shock absorber to lessen that hammer effect. May the force be with you....
 

Speedbump

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This is getting to be a pretty long thread...I am stupid about wells...but just thinking about a logical explanation...and have not read all of the posts... if the well is 398'..that means you got a heck of alot of pressure going toward the well when the pump shuts off...which tells me that a check valve is slamming shut and probablly need some kind of a heck of a muffler or shock absorber to lessen that hammer effect. May the force be with you....
Contrary to popular belief, most if not all submersible pumps below 1.5hp come with either a built in or external check valve. All are spring loaded to prevent water hammer. Otherwise you had might just as well install a swing check that could hammer your pipes to death. The idea of the spring is to keep the valve as near to close as possible. As a submersible pump builds pressure, it's volume decreases which let's the spring close the poppet in the valve more. Once the pump shuts off, the valve is nearly closed and closes the rest of the way quietly. Water hammer in submersible pump systems is a rare thing and in most instances is caused by other things rather than the check valve. And like someone mentioned earlier, this noise could be a pipe rattling that is not properly fastened.

The 398 feet would be 172 lbs. if the water level were at that depth, but would not be a cause for hammer.


bob...
 

jodan

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Jodan

Okay, Speedbump got me thinking. The pressure was at 50 and was not calling for the pump. I drained it down and it kicked back on. Randy the sound is similar to the rat a tat tat. Its like a diaphram pump and hits between 4 and 5 times
 

Speedbump

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Yes i have a meter

Do you know how to test the relay, or the capacitor? The meter has to be analog to check the start capacitor. Use the X1K scale and after shorting the two leads on the cap, touch one lead to one terminal then the other lead to the other terminal. The meter should swing hard right then drift back near infinity. Reverse leads and try again. The same thing should happen, if not the cap is bad. There are different types of relays. If you have a blue one, they can be checked, but the test is not definate. There is a black square relay than can be checked with a meter also, but that test isn't definate either. You may just want to replace it. If you have a run capacitor, you can check it the same way as the start cap, the deflection of the meter will not be as severe.

bob...
 

jodan

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jodan

i do not here anything at the control box. The hammering is the pipe i have the spot pin pointed. i have secured it, it is at a free standing setion of pipe 6'' from the concrete wall. i have built brackets and drilled them into the concrete and fastened the pipe. it did quiet the hammer some, but it still occurs, The main item i watch during the cut off is the pressure guage which jumps. Which to me confirms the movement of air or water in the line. I was in the process of checking the leak possibility of the check valve with the process earlier mentioned when i had the brain fart. I'll finish that when i get a chance.
 
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Rancher

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Raucina said:
If you perform the water -back- down- the well test as earlier described and the pump checkvalve is not leaking, then do not pull the pump.
The problem with the water-back-down the well test, is if there is a check valve at the pump, and a second further up the shaft, then if you believe Franklin who is providing the information to save their motors, if the botton one leaks, it will put a vaccuum that will cause the hammer at start up.


Jordon, this does only happen at start up, correct?

rancher
 

Speedbump

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I want you to take the cover off the pressure switch and see if the points open and close in conjunction with the hammering.

bob...
 
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Rancher

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Until Then

Only when he checks the pressure switch to see if that is causing the water hammer.

Rancher
 

Randyj

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After all this discussion I'd be broken hearted if it is only a pipe moving causing the noise when it is bumping up against something...... or something as goofy as a bad toilet valve bumping open and close.
 

Gary Slusser

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He probably has a busted spring in the check valve in the pump. It hesitates in closing and allows the water to stop and reverse direction and move slighty down the well pushed by the pressure tank pressure before the check closes, and when it does, the shock wave expands his PE tubing moving it in the basement making a noise.
 
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