Pipe burst! CPVC, to prime or NOT to prime? What went wrong?

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Sincraft

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Had a pipe burst in the ceiling of our finished basement. 7/8" cpvc. From the coupling to about 1cm outward into the pipe. The coupling did not fail, the pipe failed. Inside the pipe the crack looks bigger than the outside. Very hairline but enough to POUR water into the room Thankfully the ceiling was drop acoustic tile.

I went to a big box store, and they said it was because they used purple primer, they should have simply used cleaner and medium orange and that would have set things up nicely.
Apparently they used purple oatley primer and heavy duty orange for commercial use.

I've been reading tonight, and can't find what the correct thing is to do. Some plumbers online are saying what the big box store said, that if you use this stuff you are screwing it up. Purple is for PVC and to start the softening process for cement and then the fittings.
Others say, cleaner, then purple primer, then orange cement.
While others also say, that without purple showing, the enforcement or inspector will see this and red flag, so purple all the way.

Bottom line is, I'm uncomfortable with plastic in this finished basement. They did a crappy job spurring out with fitting crooked into the main line spur with a T. Very amateur looking and sloppy. WAY too much solder used and it spurs from our MAIN 3/4" line. Very scary. On top of that, they used plastic all throughout the finished basement. Looking at their copper work, I can't imagine they did very well on the plastic.

Maybe they simply stepped on the end of the tubing, or assumed that they didn't need to inspect it prior to installing it. Personally, if I were a plumber I would never use this garbage without a complete bore light inspection. Time saved not soldering should at least partially be spent on inspection as this product lends to damage prior to installation resulting in callbacks and likely lawsuits. Screw that.

The reason why I think maybe it was a crushed pipe was that it was at the end run of a pipe at a coupling. And if it wasn't stepped on, maybe it was crushed on a pallet or by a pallet jack. Which concerns me that others may exist. I could BARELY see the hairline crack AFTER I cut it out, and had to see it by inspecting the inside too. IF I was just doing an inspection I would have never have seen it. Unless I had a higher intensity light in there showing the hairline crack, it would have gone unnoticed and thus installed. Personally, because of this, if I were forced to use plastic, I would cut off the first 6" every time to waste. Just my 2 cents here, sorry a bit frustrated with this issue, the possible loss of money, the loss of confidence and worry about taking vacation from the home.

I'm looking to invest some in a home automation system with alerts and water / smoke alarms linked to phone/email/text.

Sigh.

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Jadnashua

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You need to use the materials compatible with CPVC. There are two methods: a single step that combines the primer/cement in one can; and the two step that uses a separate primer and cement. While there appear to be some primers that work on both cpvc and PVC, not all are specified for both. I'd guess, the same is true for the cement. That would need some more research. You'd have to read the label on the stuff you want to use to ensure it is compatible with the pipe you're using. No idea on the color coding.

Personally, I'd use PEX before cpvc.
 
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Sincraft

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hmm, still doesn't really answer my question thanks though. Your comments are inline with what I've been reading, no clean answer on this. I suppose this is why I believe this stuff should be banned. Questions like "well what kinda of CPVC are you using" "previous plastic pipe failed and was banned until new stuff came out" "no you NEVER prime CPVC, only clean to you MUST prime after cleaning and using orange cement"

All to me warrant a complete replacement to copper.

It's possible that the damage being the actual tube and not the joint is the cause of my leak.

However, now this has opened Pandora's box for me. Did they do the job right? If not, then it should be ripped out. If I can't guarantee this, after one swing at damaging water and what it did running for one hour, I'm either going to put in home automation monitors throughout the building or ripping out the finished basement plastic with something that I trust more, copper.

What are some peoples thoughts on plastic vs copper?
 
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Dlarrivee

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There is a search button, we don't need another PEX vs. copper vs. other thread.
 
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hj

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Real plumbers have been having the "copper vs. plastic" discussions for decades. I personally, do not use plastic, but others swear by it. In your case, CPVC is the preferred plastic for many companies which repipe houses, but since it can have many more "connections" than PEX it has more possibilities for leaks and failures. WE cannot tell you why that particular connection failed, but a "longitudinal" split is usually because it was damaged, while a "radial" one could be caused by improper joining.
 

Jimbo

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FROM OATEY:

ASTM F 493, the Standard specific to CPVC Solvent Cements. The completed joints in the piping system
are required to meet the requirements stated in ASTM D 2846, the Standard for the piping system.
Using Oatey CPVC Solvent Cements compliant with ASTM F 493 will ensure compliance of the completed
CPVC Distribution System to ASTM D 2846 with regard to solvent welded joints.

Oatey FlowGuard Gold Solvent Cement (FGG) is labeled as a one-step solvent cement for CTS
CPVC pipe and fittings up to 2” in diameter. Most code bodies allow FGG cement to be used as
a one-step cement because it is part of a copper tube size system that is limited to a maximum
of 2” diameter. However, some local codes do not allow one-step solvent cementing processes
and then FGG is required to be used with a listed primer such as Oatey Purple Primer - NSF
listed. Primer would also be required if FGG was used on schedule 40 or 80 CPVC pipe and
fittings.



So purple primer is OK, and now we are talking about workmanship standards...which an inspector DOES NOT INSPECT. He would have to see something pretty egregious to even mention it. It is good practice to NOT slobber primer all over the inside of a pipe, and it IS good practice to flush well after installation. It is hard to tell if your failure was due to the primer, or just a damaged pipe.
 
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Jadnashua

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You missed my point...there are different materials you can use to join cpvc...if you choose a cement that does NOT have a primer in it as well, then you need to use a separate step to put on primer. If you use one that has a primer included in the cement can, you can do it in one step. So, it depends on the stuff you choose, or the one recommended for the pipe you have. My guess is, the 'one-step' version has more solvent in it to help give it a boost rather than using the separate primer then cement two-step method. Both work. Your choice (unless the pipe manufacturer specifies a particular method and brand of joining materials).

I personally think you're better off with the two-step method of primer then cement because you're less likely to have all of the solvent evaporated by the time you get to the end of the can. But, if you're in a production situation, it probably doesn't matter since it will get used up quite quickly, giving less time for the one-step mix to get thick, and then maybe not work as well.
 

Gary Swart

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I'm not a user of CPVC although years ago I did try it in a limited way. As I recall the primer was orange. That said, I do not think the primer you used had anything to do with the pipe splitting. A poorly cemented joint, even without primer might separate, but would not cause the pipe to split. I suspect either the pipe was damaged somehow or was defective in that particular spot. I concur with a previous reply that PEX would be a better choice of material, although I am not a fan of PEX either unless you have minerals in your water that adversely affect copper, then PEX would be the better material. Notice I did not say easier to use. Plastic pipe is certainly a much simpler medium to use than either copper or PEX, but having grown up on the farm with galvanized pipe, working with copper is almost like child's play by comparison.
 
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Hackney plumbing

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If CPVC is installed in a strain it will eventually fail. If cement is allowed to puddle inside the joint it "can" cause the pipe to fail at that point. Many common substances can damage the pipe......from caulks to the plastic cover on romex. Its quite stupid when you read all the things that can cause CPVC to degrade. I will not consider it for use except for water heater relief lines. That sums it up for me.
 
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Sincraft

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wow thanks guys. Sounds like the big box guy that said he knew lots and lots and lots about plumbing really didn't know squat. Probably the reason why he was at the big box store? I know they don't pay all that well, or at least nowhere near the potential good plumber who has a good back office.

Well, no primer was used for the repair, the cement used was not a 1 step process so, guess who is repairing the repair :) No pressure through there, I have the valves off although did test the repair to success, I now don't trust it.

I have a phobia working on pipes. Honestly, I hate working on pipes that are secured, when you grab them they flop around. Plastic makes me cringe even more now although previous to this I would have felt better that it would have been flexible.

I'm actually going to pay a plumber do replace the spur out from the main line with new valves and joints. The people that did this spur out to this plastic effort, really were sloppy and the fittings are crooked. VERY paranoid about this 3/4" joint failing.
 
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