PEX - Yea or Nay?

[pbaker]

PEX problems

Thanx. Their problem is with the same brand, NIBCO Durapex. My problem is something with our well water and brass fittings. Seems like the tubing is fine (as far as I can tell). The brass fittings corrode and then fracture. I was just hoping someone had this experience somewhere.

NIBCO's insurance company is not standing behind the product made as CPI. Hope this does not get worse. It has cost me several thousand dollars in repairs at this point with 3 different failures on 3 different locations. If it goes in the attic or the foundation, it is going to be bigtime.

Again, any direction or opinions will be appreciated.

 

[Sixlashes]

I'm Glad I Still Have My Cutters and Torches

Thank you to everyone for their posts. I should have done a search for PEX on this forum BEFORE I posted this thread. Although it was an honest question, I am embarrassed to have lobbed out a hand grenade on such a hot issue.

I did not realize the depth and breadth of the problems with PEX installations. While I do not have a hard water issue here, my initial reluctance to use PEX has transformed into resolve to stay away from it. Copper is expensive, but not compared to repair and damage expenditures.

I apologize for posting such a naive thread when this issue has had so much previous attention.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Kingsotall]

PEX itself is not to blame. It's the fittings by substandard companies.

 

[Sandpiper Plumbing]

We use miles and miles of Watts and Viega pex down here year after year. I've never had a problem with a brass fitting.
I'm not a big fan of the manabloc system as I've seem manablocs leak after a few years. I prefer to run 3/4" mains accross the house and use Sioux Chief copper manifolds instead above each bathroom group, laundry/kitchen. I then stub out at each fixture with a Sioux Chief copper stubout and use a standard 5/8OD x 3/8 chrome angle stop at each fixture.

I use it all the time and when the ploy in my house starts to leak, I intend to repipe with Pex.

 

[Terry]

I've been using Uponor / Wirsbo PEX for some time, and plenty of others are too.
It's a solid product.

 

[BurleyMike]

While I am no pex expert I have done plenty of research on the stuff. As stated many times it seems that the brass fittings are the weak point.

I plumbed a bathroom addition on my house a little over a year ago with Zurn/Qest Pex and fittings. I used the SSC clamps.

Since Zurn has a lawsuit going over their brass fittings failing due to dezincification I am going to replace all of the fittings.

The only real plumbing supply house in town sells Viega/Vanguard. So far everything I have not found anything about their fittings failing. They also make polysulfone fittings that are supposed to be much more durable. They are hard to get though.

When I replace the Zurn fittings I will take pictures and post them. I am curious to see what the brass looks like.

I decided to buy a crimping tool from the supply house that uses copper crimp rings. I have read a couple of articles that suggest that the SSC clamps may break because stainless is much more brittle than the pex and brass. Over time with the expansion and contraction of the pex and brass it may weaken the stainless.

 

[Seaneys]

Hello,

I'm a homeowner in ILL just finishing a year long project that included the plumbing for a 3.5 BA addition. I hope to have the final inspection on Friday. I failed the first time due to venting.

I used Pex. I actually used the brand available at a big box store, wasn't confident in the fittings, and then ripped it out and switched to WIRSBO. Wirsbo rocks. Their products seem to be very well thought out and sell designed. The only really annoying thing abour WIRSBO is that I have not been able to find a local vendor who will sell to home owners.

I would definitely check with your inspector before you go with PEX. My inspector basically holds his nose when he sees PEX. He has been very open that he is confident in the solution, but really prefers copper from an appearance and craft perspective.

I'm not sure I saved a lot of time with PEX over copper. It takes time to drill the aditional hold, add the clamps, etc.

I used a tone of bend supports to ensure the appearance was clean.

Steve

 

[NHmaster]

We exclusivly use Wirsbo - Uponor Pex and fittings. Their fittings are not restrictive and have no internal ledge.

 

[99k]

We exclusivly use Wirsbo - Uponor Pex and fittings. Their fittings are not restrictive and have no internal ledge.

I just watched a video on the wirsbo installation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z06qjFxGjI
Two comments: 1) This appears to be an incredibly slow process 2) I don't see how this is different from other fittings and still has the "ledge". 3) Can you over expand the ring and weaken the joint?
Please enlighten me if I'm missing something. Thanks.

 

[Jadnashua]

It's my understanding that the ID of their fittings is the same as the tubing...wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Cleaning, fluxing then soldering copper would be slower. Crimping, by the time you use the go-no-go tool to verify it was good and, if you can get it into a tight space, I think it would take some time, too. The manual expander tool builds forearms! They do make powered ones.

 

[99k]

It's my understanding that the ID of their fittings is the same as the tubing...wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Cleaning, fluxing then soldering copper would be slower. Crimping, by the time you use the go-no-go tool to verify it was good and, if you can get it into a tight space, I think it would take some time, too. The manual expander tool builds forearms! They do make powered ones.

I fixed the link ... check this out because it is much different than you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z06qjFxGjI

 

[Jadnashua]

I've not held a fitting in my hand. But, considering it won't slide into the pipe unless you expand it seems to indicate that it can't be much smaller than the ID. Anyone have a set of calipers and can measure the ID of an Uphonor fitting and the corresponding pex tubing? that would tell you how much restriction there is at a typical fitting. It has to be less than the systems that use crimp rings, otherwise you'd never be able to insert the fitting into the pex.

 

[service plumber brad]

pex yes

As a plumber working in the field for many years, PEX is the greatest thing since PVC. we now use it custom homes, multi level retirement homes and especially in remods. where access is limited. it can be fished like wire and I have not seen 1 leak in over yrs. I have even used it in my own home when adding another bathroom. Zurn makes a tool that is less than 12" and 1 tool fits all crimps. PEX is resistant to poor water conditions and if psi is a concern a pr. regulator can be installed. just my two cents.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

wirsbo pex

I've not held a fitting in my hand. But, considering it won't slide into the pipe unless you expand it seems to indicate that it can't be much smaller than the ID. Anyone have a set of calipers and can measure the ID of an Uphonor fitting and the corresponding pex tubing? that would tell you how much restriction there is at a typical fitting. It has to be less than the systems that use crimp rings, otherwise you'd never be able to insert the fitting into the pex.

the Wirsbo PEX fitting make a a mean , mean joint when done properly,,,

if you use the plastic fitting and the plastic crimp rings, they literally will never come apart...

If you use a air compressor and a pneumatic gun to install the stuff , you can fly like the wind..


Whereas the ZURN fittings and other brands out there look and are very , very similar to the joints made back in the 80s with the grey poly junk....

I have seen tons of those old crimp fittings showing
stress and strain and leaking at those joints....

I will bet that in time we will be dealing with the same issues with all the pexes except the Wirsbo

actually we already are ..considering that ZURN has a
mess on their hands with their fittings already...


Another 10 years and the storm will be here...

 

[99k]

the wirsbo pex fitting makea a mean , mean joint when done properly,,,

if you use the plastic fittinga snd the plastic crimp rings, they literlally will never come apart...

If you need to redo a joint and want to salvage the fitting, what is the best method to remove the wirsbo pex pipe and sleeve?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

very difficult

you don't salvage the fitting...

it is very difficult to get those fittings apart...

you really got to think ahead with this stuff and leave yourself a lot of play room to work with...


If you bunch up those fittings real close and you have
trouble with one, then its the "crying game".....


its best not to re-use any of the Wirsbo fittings,
getting them apart can be done only by cutting off the
outer band with either a razor knife or a heated up red hot knife..
and melt it off...


its just best to cut it all out and start over,,,
if you scar the fitting in the least way, you are screwed
it will not show you any mercy... just throw it away

 

[99k]

you dont salvage the fitting...

it is very difficult to get those fittings apart...

you really got to think ahead with this stuff and leave yourself a lot of play room to work with...

I suspected that much ... removing the SS ring from the watts seems way to easy for me It seems like the wirsbo is a much more robust seal.