PEX And Freezing Winter Temperatures

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OldPete

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I don't know how chlorine can break down brass fittings...
 

Master Plumber Mark

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that is exactly my point pete

That is my point pete......

the brass fitting wont wear out...

which will wear out first.....

the seal inside the brass shark-bite fittings

or the PEX fittings , shitty crimp rings, and different pex pipes
being exposed to high chlorine levels....


lets wait ten--fifteen years and get back to me..

I took that first pic off just to not offend all the true professionals here on this site....

here is an updated pic from last week.... minor drywall has been done

.but I know it still jsut isnt pretty enough for you all....

now remember....
the whole manifold is just hanging there on the wall with only a few nails
holding it in place....
 
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Dunbar Plumbing

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Picture isn't big enough

Can you get the picture any larger? :p


A statement about brass fittings:


I've seen the thinness of the brass fittings used in PEX and why they don't make those fittings thicker is beyond me.


Those Mueller ball valves, junk. I won't install them because the socket for the piping is thin brass and give it 3 years and they start to cancer out and leak.

I stick to Nibco and I can't bring myself to buy premier ball valves even though they are cheap. The assembly is always loose.

I went ahead and gave up my last two service calls tonight; too tired and my feet have been cold and wet now for 3 days straight. Time for a much needed break. I start laughing when I get a call to fix a broken water line as I'm beat down. The crazy thing is that when the temperature starts to rise up towards 30 is when a bunch of calls come in.

I turned down a water pump call for a trailer that sits inside of a freezer chest outside the trailer. LOL!!!! Not gonna, don't wanna.
 
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OldPete

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RUGGED said:
Can you get the picture any larger? :p


A statement about brass fittings:


I've seen the thinness of the brass fittings used in PEX and why they don't make those fittings thicker is beyond me.


Those Mueller ball valves, junk. I won't install them because the socket for the piping is thin brass and give it 3 years and they start to cancer out and leak.

I stick to Nibco and I can't bring myself to buy premier ball valves even though they are cheap. The assembly is always loose.

I went ahead and gave up my last two service calls tonight; too tired and my feet have been cold and wet now for 3 days straight. Time for a much needed break. I start laughing when I get a call to fix a broken water line as I'm beat down. The crazy thing is that when the temperature starts to rise up towards 30 is when a bunch of calls come in.

I turned down a water pump call for a trailer that sits inside of a freezer chest outside the trailer. LOL!!!! Not gonna, don't wanna.

The Wirs/Uponor brass fittings I use are full thickness and far from cheap ($ or made). That pex looks messy... nothing is clamped down after the valves?
 
R

Rancher

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here is a new house under construction I had to repair where the copper valves all froze but the wirsbo fitting
Can I ask a stupid question... why would someone pay to put in that manifold array of ball valves so they could shut off every outlet of their plumbing in the house separately? Were they planning on having LOTS of plumbing problems in the future? Oh and you need to close the valves to the water softener before you turn the water back on.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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Messey pex????

That pex looks messey ????


that looks good compaired to some of the jobs in Wirsbo I
have seen out there..


as far as tacking up and secureing
the lines ...the house is not finished yet either....




the manifold was what the customer wanted....

and for a little bit more effort, it would be about what
I would do in my own home.....isolate each bathroom with ball valves..


a Wirsbo a pex manifold would have looked much, much
sloppier than the combo of both....




so whats the difference in costs anyway??
about 50 bucks in ball valves.....


if it makes them happy..... then its worth it.
 
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Gary Slusser

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Just an observation... it looks to me as if some of those valves won't be capable of shutting off because the handle will hit the valve to the left...

And the design of the "manifold", I'd be concerned about flow rates and velocity limits. They're feeding the whole house with 3/4" and the manifold is 3/4" while feeding other 3/4" lines off the manifold; including one line for the whole bathroom cold or hot water needs? I would have expected 1" from the street and for the manifold. And are the two 3/4" stubs on the right for irrigation, pool, outside faucets with only a 3/4" feed?

Mark, there have been seals, gaskets and o-rings used in water using appliances like clothes and dish washers and their pumps, all types of fixtures, toilets, coffee makers etc., water pumps and all water treatment equipment (filters and softeners) on chlorinated water for the last 50+ years. There are damned few leaks caused by chlorine.

Brass has been used on chlorinated waters for like a hundred years. And in K, L and M copper tubing forever. Even galvanized pipe and nipples. With the exception of galvanized, all with minimal leaking/corrosion/damage due to chlorine. The same should be true with today's use of chloramines.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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everybody is a critic...LOL

those valves will all turn off.... all installed by the dummey

typeing this post......so its no big deal.....

its on a well and the flow rate is NA

eventually they will get a water conditioner ...

Probably a 48,000 CLACK

It is all isolated for various reasons of my own choosing....


you really HAVE to be there to understand what I am dealing with...


the homeowners let this place freeze up after I had plumbed it
once already,

so I had to go back out and re do all those valves....

then winterize the home

again , I was very impressed with the WIRSBO --no freeze problems on the pex side


as far as the brass and pex and chlorine,

you mis-understood my sarcasm.....

got more troubles to deal with....later
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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Back to the subject line

What IS the effective way to unthaw plastic piping?

You can't open up the walls, that only happens when the pipes do it for you.

I unthawed two copper lines yesterday at a barber shop without anything more than a torch.

Customer were estatic that I didn't have to fix, anything.

This PEX is already somewhat in my area.......just in the condos and landominiums.

I'm thinking they are SOL ???? I'd rather have that problem than property damage anyday.
 

Randyj

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If you're not in too big of a hurry and it is a very small area you can seal up...mount a hairdryer in there and leave it on low or medium...might take a couple of hours but it beats tearing out the wall. Also...there are some really kewl dog grooming hair dryers that are made to be left on for long periods of time which work great for such applications.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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a large salamander

I have a large Kerosine salamander in my truck

today I thawed out a water meter in the front yard with
it ......

I thawed out some PEX today with it too....

I would guess that it is about the only way to do it....

just blast the heat into the crawl space till it all thaws out.....

IF YOU COULD FIGURE OUT AN EASY WAY TO THAW PEX PIPE YOU COULD MAKE MILLLIONS

I dont think that their is an easy way.........


the kerosine salamander makes the house stink pretty badly....
 

Master Plumber Mark

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frozen up customer

just left a ladies house after
thawing out her garage for about 1 hour+
$250.00

she left it open last night and she froze up all
the wirsbo pex pipe in the garage including a

FROZEN Clack water conditioner

she had about 3 inches of snow half way in the garage
which really blew in last night


took my slamader and literally heated
the garage hot enough to melt marshmellows...
with the door closed


put the CLACK on bypass and eventually
everything else let loose......

told her to let the place just natrually warm up
and maybe the valve would be ok.....


what is the hope of that
valve surviveing this treatment??
 
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Dubldare

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OldPete said:
I don't know how chlorine can break down brass fittings...



From the Uponor website: http://www.uponor-usa.com/index.php?id=66
ProPEX fittings are available in both brass and engineered plastic (EP). A revolutionary new plastic, EP is completely non-toxic, resistant to high chlorine levels, withstands extreme temperatures and has a proven history in rigorous plumbing environments.



Dezincification, ever heard of it...

http://www.hghouston.com/coppers/brass75.htm

http://www.copper.org/applications/rodbar/pdf/7013.pdf



Ever seen a fairly new ball valve pinholed? (Not leaking yet, but with a nice white blister of corrosion on it, within the body of the valve, not at a sweat joint) I've seen several the past few years espescially. Aggressive water and cheap valves. (cheap valves usually mean a substandard alloy)

We have a rash of failures from work done ~5 years back---ball valves pinholeing. They are almost all Jomar, although a few have been the imported (yellow handle) Watt's.
 

SirLeaky

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Hi All,
I don't have much of a problem thawing pex pipes out it just sometimes takes thinking out of the box sometimes. I up here in Maine have had my share of experiences thawing all kinds of pipes. Try thawing a 350 ft underground poly well line. It had all total about 40 ft of ice in it in varying places. Some places 5 to 6 feet deep.


I was just looking at the manifold what with all the valves turned every which way at no uniform height. I always like to have my valves at the same uniform heights. And all other cuts of copper the same so as to make it an nice neat job. Up here in Maine most inspectors would not allow all the solder drips or boogers as I call them to pass inspection. Per the good workmanship language in the codes. Nor would I let them stay on there even if they would.The printing/writing is also a bit primitive.

I just think that it looks a lot more professional. I not only wipe my joints I have been know to remove 99% of the solder with sand cloth in the most conspicuous locations. You'd be surprised how impressed the customer is with this. If we are going to get the pay that we are worth we all have to let the professionalism's come out.

Just my two cents worth.....Sirleaky
 

Racer814

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^go back and look at that installation again...


if all the ball valves are at the same height, some won't be able to close
and we don't call them "boogers" here in the south, we call 'em "dog d**ks"..

nice to know you wipe all your joints and practice perfect craftsmanship..I do too...well, I try to....and I've never had a "perfect" job yet...
but to come on here and nit pick someone else's work with your very first post is not all that cool. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it...I just know how it would strike me:)
 

Racer814

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Rancher said:
Can I ask a stupid question... why would someone pay to put in that manifold array of ball valves so they could shut off every outlet of their plumbing in the house separately? Were they planning on having LOTS of plumbing problems in the future? Oh and you need to close the valves to the water softener before you turn the water back on.
main advantage of a manifold system as I see it...other than being able to shut off a tub or shower valve without killing all the water is that you will get hot water quicker at the furthest points as it can take a more direct route and can be sized down..........
 

SirLeaky

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Sorry any offense was taken I was just trying to keep the respectful opinions of our trade/s intact. God knows that some homeowners already think there is nothing to our trade/s and that we are just nothing but overpaid hacks.

The manifold could be piped so as all the valves would turn put at the same level.

I go into every job with the intent of doing a perfect job. I never have had anything close to a perfect job, but it is not a bad goal to have.;)
 

Master Plumber Mark

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everyone is a critic

golley gee fellows.......

I really dont have to defend this

but "cave man"...because I used a majic marker

to identify this guys outlets..?? thats really sweet....

If I were to go back out with some paint thinner
and remove my cave markings and put something
better on that "temporary wall" would you all like it then??

the customer was happy that I didentified the valves for him..


the valves had to be at different heights because the handles
would hit one another......if you did this for a living you
wold probably know that already..

as far as the soldering...this was the second set of valves
installed becasue the homeowner let the first set freeze up
...and part of the copper mainfold too...


and their is a time and place for pretty--pretty
and a time to just get the work done...
like when its about 5 degrees in the house.

I have probably soldered more joints before I was
9 yrs old than many of you have done up to this day.
some very good ---and some ugly....

so their are those who do

....and those who teach...

and those who are only critics

cause they cant do any of the above...
 
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