Permeate Pump Question

[Joe Ejo]

My RO system is a 5 stage 100 gal per day with a 40 gallon pressure tank. It has worked adequately for the last 5 years although with limited pressure.

About six months ago, a friend mentioned that a permeate pump would increase the overall pressure of the filtered water.

We decided to give it a try, and added an Aquatec ERP 1000. The results were amazing. The RO water pressure was increased by nearly double and we never ran out of RO water again until:

Two days ago, we were suddenly out of water. I noticed the permeate pump had stopped clicking so I called Watts Premier (where we bought the pump) and without hesitation the tech support guy gave me an RMA number and said if I sent it in they would look at it and let me know if it was repairable or under warranty, but it would take several weeks before I got an answer.

We could not live without RO water that long, so I purchased another ERP 1000 from Watts Premier and sent the 'broken' one in for repair. I am certain it is installed correctly as I removed the old one and installed the new one at the same moment, tube for tube.

I hooked the new one up and still no clicking. (the ERP 1000 is known for its noticeable click when it works). We were getting water, but not at the great pressure as before, more like the weaker stream before we added the pump in the first place.

I called Watts Premier tech support again, and after nearly an hour wait, the tech (same one as before, them must have only one person) said, and I quote, "I don't know what to tell you. I am not familiar with that pump so I could not possible tell you why it is not working". (side note...never buy from Watts Premier).

Anyway, so now I have a new pump, water production at reduced pressure and no idea what to do next.

Here is what I have done:

1. Replaced all filters including the RO membrane which were about 6 months old.
2. Verified that the water coming from the BRINE IN tube to the pump is about 4X the flow that coming from the PERMEATE IN tube. (This seems to be a test for a bad pump, but the pump is brand new so I doubt it is defective)
3. Verified that flow of water INTO the system is at 60 PSI

Can someone with experience give me some advice?
What should I check next?
I seem to recall the pump clicking whenever water passed through it, is that correct, or does it only click when the pressure tank is full or empty?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bannerman]

You didn't mention checking the pressure tank.

If water remains in it but there is no pressure, the tank could be water logged with no additional space to hold more water. That could be caused by a defective bladder or a leaking tank or air valve.

If water remains, either disconnect the tank or open the RO faucet to drain the tank contents by adding air to the tank's air valve. If air comes out along with water, then it is likely the bladder has torn and the bladder or the tank will need to be replaced.

If the water drains without any air, then pressurize the tank to push out all the contents. With the tank empty and the RO feed turned off, add 5-7 psi and test over a few hours to ensure that the pressure holds. If not, search for any leaking air which maybe easier by submerging the tank in a tub of water. Hopefully, it will only be the air valve that is leaking as the valve internals maybe easily replaced.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Joe Ejo]

You didn't mention checking the pressure tank.

If water remains in it but there is no pressure, the tank could be water logged with no additional space to hold more water. That could be caused by a defective bladder or a leaking tank or air valve.

If water remains, either disconnect the tank or open the RO faucet to drain the tank contents by adding air to the tank's air valve. If air comes out along with water, then it is likely the bladder has torn and the bladder or the tank will need to be replaced.

If the water drains without any air, then pressurize the tank to push out all the contents. With the tank empty and the RO feed turned off, add 5-7 psi and test over a few hours to ensure that the pressure holds. If not, search for any leaking air which maybe easier by submerging the tank in a tub of water. Hopefully, it will only be the air valve that is leaking as the valve internals maybe easily replaced.

Thank you for your prompt and useful reply. I will test the tank tomorrow.
If the tank failed, would that cause the lack of clicking in the pump?

 

[Bannerman]

If the tank can't hold any additional water, there is no place for the RO water to flow so the pump will shut down.

While you mentioned that the water output is now low, I expect that whatever water is flowing through to the faucet, will be flowing directly from the RO membrane at the rate the water is being filtered, without benefit of the storage tank. While you didn't mention the pump clicking while the faucet was open and water was exiting, perhaps you didn't check the pump at that time.

 

[Joe Ejo]

Thanks for the help. These are things I had not thought of and should help me pinpoint the problem.

Again, thanks mate.

 

[Bannerman]

Here's some info and a demonstration you may find useful.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/t-reverseosmosispermeatepump.aspx

 

[ditttohead]

The permeate pump makes noise only when it senses back pressure and is running. If the tank is empty, no backpressure, no click. If the tank is full, the pump simply dead heads and no click.

I agree, start with checking your holding tank air pressure. It should be at approximately 6 PSI but can only be tested when it is completely empty of all water.

 

[Bannerman]

If the tank is empty, no backpressure, no click.

Any sound whatsoever? If before any back pressure develops, can any sounds be heard to verify the pump is operating even if placing an ear directly against the pump?

 

[ditttohead]

Open to atmosphere or very low pressure, I don't think it will make any noise, it needs to have some backpressure from the pressurized storage tank to start working.