partial rewire

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by DIY, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. DIY

    DIY New Member

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    Florida
    In what i have been told ,and have been getting estimates for as some outlets and appliances already have a proper equipment ground.What is needed is a partial rewire consisting of several circuits. With a partial rewire are additional outlets still needed following the 6'/12' rule? Thank you all!!
  2. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

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    NY State, USA
    Unless you do a renovation no receptacles are "required". You can add as many or as few as you like.
  3. DIY

    DIY New Member

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    Thank you for the reply Speedy Petey appreciated
    I'm thinking then a complete rewire of a whole house would be considered a renovation or in other words an "all at once project",and would be subject to additional outlets via the 6/12 rule? I hope to get an electrician back in here within the year to rewire the other circuits so those outlets are properly equipment grounded as well. For now i have one more estimate to get ,then decide, schedule and get those first few circuits re wired. Thanks again!
  4. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

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    South of Boston, MA
    If you are doing a complete rewire then your Building Dept will probably insist it is brought up to current codes
    This means GFCI, AFCI & other codes
    Only way to know for sure is to ask them
  5. DIY

    DIY New Member

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    153
    Location:
    Florida
    partial re wire

    Thanks for the reply scuba dave.
    I am trying to get all outlets so they have a equipment ground (two to three wire) In the interest of a cost point is why i am doing the outlet re wire in stages aka partial re wire it is called as i understand. Electricians said i would probably want the 2 bedrooms circuits re wired to one circuit,at the same time,and suggesting strongly to put both bedrms. on one 20amp. AFCI breaker.The one circuit would consist of 10-11 outlets 2 ceiling fans each with 180 watts worth of light ,and GFCI the kitchen and bathroom outlets. I hope to have the living room circuit re wired within 1- 2 months.This all still excludes switches and light fixtures.....how they exclude that while re wiring a circuit i am not sure...? unless that is included in a circuit re wire? Maybe some electrical contractors out there can chime in on this? As far as adding more outlets as pertains to the 6/12 rule i have only heard complete rewires are subject to that? I am ok with not adding more outlets ,but whether needed or not i am adding AFCI breakers as needed and GFCI outlets in bathroom and kitch.
  6. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Partial rewires done in stages until the entire building is done even over a period of time is a complete rewire.

    As an inspector I would call you on this on the second inspection.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    stages

    And you are sure he is going to get permits, since he thinks he is putting one over by the definition of what he is doing? He probably also figures each stage is too minor to require an inspection and/or permit.
  8. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Here in North Carolina the only electrical work that can be attempted without a permit is the changing of a light bulb or a fuse. Everything else requires a permit and an inspection.
  9. DIY

    DIY New Member

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    stages

    The estimates i have gotten so far include in their written estimate the cost for permit fees. The last two estimates i posted about i have yet to see.One of those estimates I am told will be sent via the mail,the other via e mail.Any of these estimates that do not include permit fees/info. they are scratched off the list.
  10. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    What you are proposing in this thread would constitute a complete rewire of the building and would require it to come into complete code compliance to the most current code in your area.

    To just do a little today and a little more a few months later doesn’t matter at all. Once a circuit is replaced then that circuit must meet the current code requirements.

    I also disagree with making the circuits 20 amps as the parts not being replaced such as the lights would be what would mandate the size of the overcurrent.

    If the electricians that are submitting the bid has not explained this to you then I would be seeking another electrician as this one has already shown that they are incompetent.
  11. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

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    Location:
    South of Boston, MA
    I have found that it is better to exceed code in placement of outlets. Lamps & other devices these days seem to have shorter & shorter cords
    My house is from the 50's. I had a 14' hallway that did not have an outlet, I added one. It's main use is for the vacuum cleaner, I also have a CO detector plugged in
    Main room I added 1 outlet for an AC, another one on a longer wall. Main entry area doesn't have any outlet, 1 wall in the dining room doesn't have an outlet, back bedroom needed another outlet. The kitchen - EVERYTHING, was on a single 20a circuit
    We don't plan on moving - so it's not a resale point for us. It's merely being able to use the house & plug things in & re-organize furniture without worrying abouyt outlets

    As long as you are wiring, better to meet the codes
  12. DIY

    DIY New Member

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    Location:
    Florida
    stages

    jwelectric hi thanks for the reply.The circuit you question includes ceiling lights w/ fans that were put in with previous owner are wired with the existing 12AWG older type romex cable, and the existing breakers that control them are 20amp.Are you saying you disagree going to 20 amp again for the light w/ ceiling fans? Are you suggesting new #12-2 would be an overkill put to these fixtures? 2 ceiling lights each at 180w worth of light,2 52" ceiling fans,1 60w ceiling light w/ a 42" ceiling fan. I'm here to make sure things are wired and done right,but at the same time i don't want to necessarily shadow the electrician.If licensed i would hope they know what kind of wire to use or procedure to use. On a similar note: Do all the existing metal boxes(2-1/4" deep) that have always had 1 12AWG 2 wire cable and 1 outlet in them need to be changed out to plastic type box? Perhaps that info. will be briefly be explained and priced out on the estimates that have yet to get here...
  13. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

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    885
    Location:
    South of Boston, MA
    If it's already 12g & 20a I wouldn't downgrade it to 15a
    Usually I run 14g 15a for lighting runs

    If the metal boxes are too small for the number of wires then they may need to be replaced. The electricians should know if they need to be replaced (box fill calc). Each cable needs a certain amount of cubic inches of space, so if you have 3 or more wires the smaller metal boxes are usually not big enough
  14. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Location:
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    then what did you mean here?
    No that is not what I was saying. I was under the impression that the switches and the wiring thereto was not being address at this time.
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