Oversized softener, options to increase efficiency (Clack WS1)?

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azbenf

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About 6 years ago I purchased a system from a local (and reputable) Phoenix area water quality company and has worked well until lateley. From reading here it seems the unit is way oversized for a two person household, but think it was sized more for the house (4000 sq ft) and potential occupants, and number of bathrooms (5), rather than how much we'd use in reality. It's just my wife and myself, and we're pretty low water users.

Recently it seems to be operating less efficiently and about 100 gallons before the demand-scheduled regen takes place the water from the faucets starts to feel quite hard. A couple years ago I increased the hardness setting on the control valve but it seems like I need to do that yet again. I do check for a salt bridge between refills (Morton System Saver II pellets). I've been careful never to overfill the brine tank not putting in more than 2 bags at a time, and salt level in tank is always half full or less.

The system itself is a 48,000 capacity with a Clack WS1 control valve, brine tank is separate from resin tank. I can post a link to the exact system if it's allowed but it's referred to as "The President" model and will come up as the first link in Google if searched on. Incoming water is treated city water. When first installed water hardness was 11 gpg, I just checked yesterday and its about 20 gpg now so it's increased, but still think my settings/unit should be able to handle it. No iron present in water. PH was 6.5 last time measured, chlorine = .8, alk = 80. I checked for hardness at the faucet today and it showed about 2 gpg even though regen was done a couple days ago, though admittedly the salt in the brine tank is low (I'm about the empty/clean it out and replace pellet salt with solar salt). The brine tank has never been cleaned but will be doing that this weekend. I don't know if it matters but water pressure was kicked up in our area about a year ago from 60 psi to 80 psi.

The Clack WS1 is currently set as follows: Hardness = 39; Day override = off; Capacity = 48,000; Pounds of salt per regen = 12; Backwash time = normal; Gallons before regen = auto; Refill = post regen; Regenerant flow = down; Regen time option = normal

I went through the diags and valve history and here's what I think could be useful stats: Max flow rate last 7 days = 7.2 gal per minute; Total days since last reset = 2172 (6 years); Total gallons since last reset = 129,000; Total regens since last reset = 112. Doing the math that averages to 59 gallons total per day, and a regen every 19 days.

So my system seems way oversized and am wondering what I can do to help it soften water as efficiently as possible. I don't care about salt usage, if that number has to be high I'm okay with that, but I'd prefer to keep the water wasted at a minimum as we're on a septic system. From reading it sounds like a regen should be done about every 10-14 days even if the gallon usage hasn't reached the regen trigger point so that's something I was going to change: Regen when gallons reaches 0 trigger point OR every 10 days. I'm also considering switching to brine pre-regen fill rather than post-regen fill though is more of a "warm fuzzy" for me. The water level in the brine tank after a post fill seems very high to me, about 1/3 full when almost out of salt and typically is always above the salt line, and sits for a long time between regens. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Beyond that I'm not sure what, or if, I should change within the valve settings. As mentioned above I'm going to switch from pellet to solar salt. Should I make any changes to the unit settings like capacity (reduce to a lower number?), pounds of salt per regen (reduce from 12 since I'll be doing a regen more often), or increase/decrease the hardness setting from 39? Or has lack of use potentially fouled or made the media less efficient?

Ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Apologies for the long post and/or if I missed anything important.
 

Reach4

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I see the 0.8 ppm chlorine number. Was that test at your house a quite a while ago, or is that a number published by the city?

While resin usually lasts longer than that, it could be that you should change out your resin. It may be the case that you should do some cleaning including screen(s) and injector. When you do a regen, does the water get all sucked out down to maybe a couple inches of the bottom of the brine tank? Are you consuming salt as fast as you think you should?

IMO, solar salt will not be better than the Morton System Saver pellets. I think that most those who prefer solar salt are from places where the solar salt is cheaper. I expect less residue from the Morton System Saver pellets than from the solar salt.

Your load on the septic system is minimal.

I am not a pro.
 

ditttohead

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For starters some basic trouble shooting and adjustments are in order.

1: Do you have a Hach 5B test kit. "The water feels hard" is not a test kit in the same way kicking tires is not a pressure gauge. Old test kits will likely not be accurate. If your test kit is a few years old, but a new hach 5B
2: Remove the valve from the tank and inspect the resin level. It should be approximately 2/3 full of resin.
Once these two items are done, we can better help you diagnose and adjust your system for better performance. Your water usage is lower than average and with a proper hardness test and a quick inspection, your system will be operating great in no time.

Solar vs pellet, does not matter. Sodium Chloride is sodium chloride

48,000 grains is almost never "oversized" in a residential application. Regeneration should be done in municipal applications at least every thirty days. Set your DO to 30

Setting your hardness higher is not a proper way to get the system working properly. It may work but it would make as much sense as adjusting a carburetor to run extra rich since the car keeps stalling. Their is an underlying problem that needs to be addressed. When you remove the valve, take pictures and post the riser tube picture here. It should be clean. If it is covered in red/brown, then you have some ferric iron issues, this is fairly common and over long periods of time, the capacity of the resin will be diminished.

What size are your tanks? Also, be sure to clean your brine tank with warm water/bleach. Be sure to make sure there are no strings or bag pieces in there.

As a quick side note, resin has an estimated 5-10 capacity loss annually. In my testing, this is fairly accurate in commercial applications, It is probably overstated in residential applications.
 
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azbenf

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Thanks for the replies! The chlorine test number was from a few years ago, I haven't tested that recently. Hard to tell for sure with the salt displacing it but looks like 2-3" of water left in the brine tank after a regen. Salt actually seems to be going a little too fast but I haven't been paying very close attention (but I will now).

I don't have the Hach test kit (I used test strips ) but just ordered one, will post test info here after I get it.

The softener system is actually still under warranty, it came with a 10 year, so I'll probably give them a call before I start dismantling. I was thinking my problems were related to settings being wrong for too long, and maybe they are, but was hoping there was something I could do before having to call them out.

I'm not sure on the tank size, they didn't tell me when I bought and don't see specs anywhere for it. I'm definitely going to give the brine tank a good cleaning next weekend.

Thanks again
 

Reach4

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Salt actually seems to be going a little too fast but I haven't been paying very close attention (but I will now).
If the unit was using salt a lot slower than expected, we would wonder if the brine draw had a problem.

I'm not sure on the tank size, they didn't tell me when I bought and don't see specs anywhere for it.
"48,000" usually has 10" x 54" media tank with 1.50 cu. ft. of resin.
 

azbenf

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Yes, forgot to post that I measured the outside of the tank though it has a shiny cover around it so wasn't sure how accurate I got. It was within an inch or two of 10x54.
 

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It was within an inch or two of 10x54.
By your description, your softener has a jacket which loosely fits over the media tank, sometimes with some thin foam insulation in between. As the next larger tank is 12" diameter, I expect it would be fairly obvious if it was 12" as that would measure closer to 13".

Since it appears to be a 1.5 cuft unit, as Dittohead implied, that is not a large softener.

If the salt setting truly is 12 lbs total, that would be one explanation as to why you are running short of capacity and experiencing hardness leakage. You indicated increasing the hardness setting previously which somewhat compensated for the low salt dose. Now you're experiencing further issues, possibly due to an increase in raw water hardness. If the hardness has actually increased substantially, perhaps your water supplier is now obtaining water from another source such as a new well.

Twelve pounds of salt will restore 32,000 grains capacity in a 1.5 cuft unit, not 48,000 grains which is your current capacity setting. Similar to a car, if it has a fuel capacity of 15 gallons to provide a 480 mile driving range, you then couldn't expect to drive 480 miles with only 10 gallons in the tank.

The capacity programmed should not be the resin's total capacity but needs to be the restorative capacity governed by the salt setting. Your current salt setting is great and is both salt and water efficient, but is not appropriate to restore 48K grains capacity.

As the actual hardness is an important aspect to programming the softener, measure the hardness of the incoming water after your test kit arrives. Once an accurate hardness amount is established, the entire softener programming can then be reviewed and amended as appropriate.
 
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Reach4

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When you remove the valve, take pictures and post the riser tube picture here. It should be clean. If it is covered in red/brown, then you have some ferric iron issues, this is fairly common and over long periods of time, the capacity of the resin will be diminished.
Would finding things covered in red/brown indicate that some kind of sediment filter, to take out ferric iron particles, on the city water should precede the softener?

If the resin function has deteriorated significantly over the past 6 years, should the resin be treated, or would it be better to just replace it?

Would finding a strongly adhering red/brown film tend to suggest that the incoming water may have ferrous iron and therefore may be under-chlorinated?
 
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_John_

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1.5 cu. ft. 48000 grain is definitely not oversized. I might have even recommended a WS1.25 just for flow rate considerations. I have a 10"x54" softener in my personal home which is 3.5 bath and 2800 sq ft (3 of us at the moment).

If you want it to regen more regularly you can go back to factory settings at about 22 gpg hardness (I always set them a few grains over actual tests) 24K capacity and 9 lbs/regen. and day override of 30.
 

azbenf

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By your description, your softener has a jacket which loosely fits over the media tank, sometimes with some thin foam insulation in between. As the next larger tank is 12" diameter, I expect it would be fairly obvious if it was 12" as that would measure closer to 13".

Measured again and the tank is 10" x 54", so appears it is 1.5 cu ft.

Since it appears to be a 1.5 cuft unit, as Dittohead implied, that is not a large softener.

If the salt setting truly is 12 lbs total, that would be one explanation as to why you are running short of capacity and experiencing hardness leakage. You indicated increasing the hardness setting previously which somewhat compensated for the low salt dose. Now you're experiencing further issues, possibly due to an increase in raw water hardness. If the hardness has actually increased substantially, perhaps your water supplier is now obtaining water from another source such as a new well.

Twelve pounds of salt will restore 32,000 grains capacity in a 1.5 cuft unit, not 48,000 grains which is your current capacity setting. Similar to a car, if it has a fuel capacity of 15 gallons to provide a 480 mile driving range, you then couldn't expect to drive 480 miles with only 10 gallons in the tank.

The capacity programmed should not be the resin's total capacity but needs to be the restorative capacity governed by the salt setting. Your current salt setting is great and is both salt and water efficient, but is not appropriate to restore 48K grains capacity.

As the actual hardness is an important aspect to programming the softener, measure the hardness of the incoming water after your test kit arrives. Once an accurate hardness amount is established, the entire softener programming can then be reviewed and amended as appropriate.

Thanks a lot (and everyone else that replied), that's good info.

Got the 5B test kit today. Hardness = 26 gpg so it's definitely increased from when we tested about 6 years ago. Indoor/softened water didn't show any hardness (I did 2 regens over the weekend).

Measured the tank again and it's right at 10" x 54" so gather that means it's a 1.5 cu ft.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions for settings based on that. Thanks again!
 
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azbenf

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That's a little outside my comfort zone, especially with the unit still under warranty. ...unless disconnecting the valve and getting it off (unscrew I'm guessing?) is easier than it looks.
 

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It is quite easy.

Shut off the water, advance the controler to Backwash to relieve water pressure from the tank, unplug power, disconnect the bypasss and drain line from the valve. Grasp the valve and turn counter clockwise to unscrew from the tank until completely removed from the tank threads. Lift the valve straight up as there may be an upper basket screen attached to the valve extending into the tank which will need to clear the tank. The riser tube should remain in the tank center and should remain flush with the tank opening.

Not all softeners come equipped with an upper basket screen so don't be alarmed if one is not there. If the basket screen remains in the tank, you can lift it out so as to view into the tank.

When reinstalling, reverse the proceedure. The valve does not need to be screwed down too tight as an O-ring provides the water tight seal between the tank and valve.
 
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azbenf

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I've attached a pic of the valve as connected from the top down. I believe the bypass and drain line you're referring is what I've indicated with the blue arrows.

The part I'm less "comfortable" with (or sure about) are the parts I've put the red arrows pointing towards. I think I have to also disconnect that incoming/outgoing water line assembly before I can start "unscrewing" the valve head. Correct? Or are those connected in such a way they can stay attached while the valve head is removed?

Assuming that has to come off, also assuming I just turn those counterclockwise until they're free of the female part of the connection, then set aside.

Thank you!

*Edit* Re-reading your post I think the part with the red arrows is what you referred to as "bypass". If so, just want to be sure my assumption above on how to remove that is correct.
 

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Bannerman

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The part with the Red arrow handles is the Bypass valve. When those two handles are turned to point at each other, the water will flow through the bypass from inlet to outlet without flowing through the softener. The two knurled fittings closest to the softener can then be unscrewed so that the softener can be disconnected from the water inlet and outlet but water will continue to flow to the house. Once disconnected, you can move the softener forward from the plumbing, to allow room to unscrew the control valve.

Since you're only removing the control valve for a short period, it would be simpler to shut off the main water feed to the house and open the closest faucet to relieve pressure as opposed to advancing the control to Backwash. The two knurled fittings on the plumbing side of the Bypass do not need to be disconnected, only the two closest to the control valve.

I neglected to previously mention to disconnect the brine line on the top (your blue arrow) while your other blue arrow points to the drain line. Removing the Red clips at the two fittings makes disconnection a simple matter.
 
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azbenf

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The part with the Red arrow handles is the Bypass valve. When those two handles are turned to point at each other, the water will flow through the bypass from inlet to outlet without flowing through the softener. The two knurled fittings closest to the softener can then be unscrewed so that the softener can be disconnected from the water inlet and outlet but water will continue to flow to the house. Once disconnected, you can move the softener forward from the plumbing, to allow room to unscrew the control valve.

Since you're only removing the control valve for a short period, it would be simpler to shut off the main water feed to the house and open the closest faucet to relieve pressure as opposed to advancing the control to Backwash. The two knurled fittings on the plumbing side of the Bypass do not need to be disconnected, only the two closest to the control valve.

I neglected to previously mention to disconnect the brine line on the top (your blue arrow) while your other blue arrow points to the drain line. Removing the Red clips at the two fittings makes disconnection a simple matter.

Thanks again for the info/help. I took the valve off today and the resin tank appears to be about 3/4 full. I pulled out some of the resin beads and the color looks like a light gold color. Not sure if you can tell much based on my observation, or the pics, but to me it seemed very clean in there, didn't look rusty or dirty. Put everything back together, gave the brine tank and float assy a good cleaning and put in some fresh salt. All nice and clean now.

Since there's still a good supply of resin and the beads look good am guessing/hoping that means it's just a matter of getting my settings dialed in.
 

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ditttohead

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Looks great. You are correct, assuming there is no weird fouling of the resin, a simple reprogramming of the valve to the correct settings should get you going.
 
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