outside natural gas line

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by george58, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. george58

    george58 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    can I use black pipe under ground to run a gas line to an out building, if not what materal should I use. also is there a pex for natural gas line?
  2. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    No not underground. It is yellow plastic PE for gas and not a DIY project at all do not under any circumstances try this yourself, leave it to a pro if you can't afford a pro don't do it at all.

    IMPORTANT: Do not do this yourself unless you are a licensed plumber or gas service professional. The fact you are asking tells me you are not.
  3. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    BM underground in my state requires water tight sleeving.
    Construct is correct this isn't something for a DIY, all it takes is a small leak underground and the neighbors house could could be the path of least resistence.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,032
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    gas

    Watertight sleeving is usually only required under a concrete slab, when it is allowed to be installed there. Green coated pipe is approved for underground installations, but it is an extremely inferior material and will deteriorate rapidly if very good installation practices are not followed. Yellow PE pipe is the preferred method, but DIY'ers are not supposed to be able to purchase it.
  5. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    Word is out in my state that they may legalize it soon, the utility co's use it, yet we can't.
    If you've never had to sleeve an underground, count your blessings...complete pain in da keyster.
  6. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Messages:
    1,348
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    Our gas co allowed us to run normac from house to pool heaters and
    out biuldings.Inspections were VERY Intense.
  7. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Well, here in San Diego, homeowners ARE allowed to pull permits and do gas work, then get it inspected. The most common material used underground is the green epoxy coated iron pipe. It has proved to be less than an ideal material, because of unavoidable nicks in the epoxy. All fittings, and any place the epoxy is nicked, must be primed with a special yellow primer, then wrapped with two layers of 20 mil pipe wrap. The primer is about $ 20 a quart, so homeowners often think they can skip it. The inspector will shoot them down for lack of primer ( it is yellow so they know if it is missing!).

    As mentioned, the special plastic pipe is generally not available for homeowners to purchase, as special tools and training are required.

    If you are going to do this yourself, you need to know about codes regarding how deep, gas pipe under structures, etc.
  8. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    NOTE: underground gas lines are not a DIY project.

    Black Iron pipe alone appears to not be OK anywhere? We used the coated iron for some riser situations, but now with the protected PE risers they are not used here, maybe they are illegal.

    They now say no mechanical fitting under the ground, only heat and fusion welds on the PE pipe. Very few private contractors do it because of the expense of equipment training and certification. As of now the homeowner owns the line from the curb in so they have to pay for repairs to it. The use of "welded" PE has increased their cost drastically.

    I don't understand how the gas company anywhere can allow uncertified installers to install gas pipe underground outside. The federal law is murky, but I guess service lines are up to the house. They should have said underground gas lines.

    I'm not a fan of indoor above ground gas pipping being done as a DIY project, I really don't want any of my uncertified neighbors doing gas lines under ground. Can you say BOOM?
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  9. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Messages:
    1,348
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    I was certified to install normac.And yes this is not DYI project.
    Only fittings are above ground.
  10. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    It seems like most manufactures of the new methods of gas pipping say their product requires certification to install, that makes code officials require it and probably saves the manufactures some troubles from DIYers messing up their product and giving them a bad name. Do you like the Normac?
  11. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    I had a customer last year I did some plumbing for, I noticed a STRONG smell of gass as I went in and out.
    Told him it was a bad leak, if was seeping from underground and he needed it dealt with ASAP, he said he'd already called the gas co, they stopped by and said it was "only in the ground outside, should be fine" ...they'd get to it in a few months.
    I told him to insist, he had to stay on the phone and browbeat them for hours, when they finally did do it a week later, a worker told him he was lucky to have a home it was so bad.
  12. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Messages:
    1,348
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    Yes I did ,rolls right into the trench tape locater wire to the pipe.Set up your
    normac risers,clamps etc. inspection,backfill & you are ready to hard or
    trac pipe.Certified in trac pipe also.
  13. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I don't know why, but we are not allowed to use any of the mechanical risers and couplings under ground. Even the DOT certification website shows how to use them, some dumb local thing or something. That stuff changes with the management of the local gas company around here, hard to keep up sometimes. The gas company always inspects even after the building inspector.
  14. markts30

    markts30 Commercial Plumber

    Messages:
    630
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I like the fusion welded PE pipe - and with it the anodeless risers with the push-on couplings...
    A lot easier than any other method of installing underground gas pipe...
    Trained on it and never had a problem...
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