Outdoor fan, switch and receptacles

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by rosem637, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    Have a roof covering my patio and now want to install a couple receptacles, a switch and a ceiling fan on the framing members under the roof. Power from the panel will go first into a GFI outlet. Then I want to add another outlet that will be powered from the LOAD side of the GFI. I am a little confused on how to take power to the switch.

    In the diagrams below is one way more preferred over the other as far as the load side of the GFI giving power to the other receptacle and switch(1) or should the power for the switch be grabbed with the line side of the GFI(2)?

    All wires will be run in PVC conduit underground and along wood framing of support for roof.
  2. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    Here is the 2nd way showing the switch for the fan being powered from the LINE side of the GFI.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,825
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    fan

    The fan should be high enough that it would not need to be on the GFCI, so either wiring diagram will work. I, personally, do not like to see stationary motors wired through a GFCI because of false tripping, so I would use the second one.
  4. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    I received this answer on another forum:
    In (2) you're pulling the neutral from the LOAD side of the GFCI, and the feed from the LINE side, the GFCI will see that as an imbalance as whats going out on the LOAD black(feed) does not equal the LOAD white(neutral) coming back, causing the GFCI to trip.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,825
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Gfci

    Correct. I hadn't noticed that he was not connecting the fan's neutral to the line side of the GFCI along with the hot wire, but that is still the option I would use, once that was done.
  6. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    One more quick question. I know I will need a "wet" location rated fan but what time of box will I need to support this from being that we will use PVC conduit?



    Thanks
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,825
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    fan

    quote; I know I will need a "wet" location rated fan Why? do you plan on hosing down your ceiling or is the roof leaking? IT has been months since Cave Creek even had "wet" anything. You either install a conventional box, securely anchored to the joists then connect the conduit to it, or you use a "fan support box" and do the same thing.
  8. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,540
    Location:
    North Carolina
    this is good advice
  9. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    The underside of the porch roof will be, at LEAST, a damp location, it's NOT permissible to use boxes listed for dry locations.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,825
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    box

    quote; The underside of the porch roof will be, at LEAST, a damp location, Almost impossible in Arizona, but common in Michigan. When my home was built, they used the same fans on the porch as they did in the family room.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,139
    Location:
    New England
    Out of curiosity, assuming you have a decent roof, why would the underside be considered a wet or damp area? Fog? There should be no leaks in a decent roof, otherwise, the entire house would be considered a damp area!
  12. kreemoweet

    kreemoweet New Member

    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Seattle. WA
    The National Electrical Code specifically states that "roofed open porches" are to be classified as Damp Locations. In my part of the world, that
    classification is more than justified, but I suppose not so much in drier areas.
  13. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    Maybe you have have wet location fans both in and out. Hopefully.

    Chapter 1
    Definitions

    Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
    subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed opened porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.
  14. rosem637

    rosem637 New Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Michigan
    ANy thoughts on if this arrangement would function or would it cause the GFI to trip? The duplex, which is shown at ceiling level, will have both halves switch controlled.


    Thanks
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,139
    Location:
    New England
    Since nothing is connected to the load in your diagram, the GFCI is out of the picture, so no, it should not trip. Only when you have something on the load side (or if it has receptacles in it rather than a GFI CB) is the GFCI going to trip on a fault.
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