Our seemingly never ending sewer line under the house problem

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Melissa2007B

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We live in the west Denver area. I've had other threads around here, about these back ups that have been happening every 6-12 months, ever since we got this IRC modular house put on the foundation in 2004 and moved in at the end of that year.

We've had countless rooter calls and a few "camera" calls done. The latest was last Wednesday. The first was back when they gave us a fairly useless VHS tape of it.

We've been told darn near everything about the plumbing under this house. ( please don't bother with the old threads - this one is the latest and, I think, the most accurate ) Some of it didn't sound right at all, but mostly a mystery about why it keeps happening. Attached is an AutoCAD drawing that I did of the house years ago, and added the basic plumbing layout to.

The way it starts is always when I'm taking a shower in that top bath in the drawing. I suddenly hear "BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP..." in the toilet. When I get out, I flush the toilet and it rises up and won't go down. If we let it go for long, it can soon involve the whole house, so the one thing we've learned is to call the rooter company right away.

This latest event was late afternoon last Wednesday . I called the rooter company right away and they came out within a couple of hours. Good company.

Before they got here, we were doing dishes in the kitchen and heard more of the "BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP..." in the toilet of that top bath, while doing so. The clog always seems to be in the line between the kitchen and where the bottom bath enters the main line.

So the rooter company comes out Wednesday night and I told him that the clog always happens upstream in the house. He roots it and it clears right up, as usually happens. He leaves.

BUT, Friday night..."BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP..." in the toilet, same thing all over again. The feelings like we just cant fricking take anymore of this. We called again and they said that we REALLY should get a camera done on the line, but it ends up that they cant do it until Sunday ( they kept getting tied up on long jobs and the camera requires a supervisor - big company ). DURING that time, it was 1 flush in that top bathroom, that would go down, then the next flush would rise up. Then I had to wait an hour or more, then 1 flush would work again, once. And of course, I didn't dare shower Saturday night.

So this time, they're of course more high tech with the camera stuff. They can upload it for me to see on youtube. ( didn't really care for my address showing up in it, but...) So a friend let me upload this to her YouTube.

What happened was that he put the camera in there and had me start running that top tub water, as he ran it about 58 feet up, then apparently started the video on the way back. On the way up, he broke through the clog and cleared everything out, as the water ran. He said the clog was at about 27 feet ( including the drop below ground ) which WOULD place it between the kitchen and the lower bath line entry into the main pipe. He also said that there was what looked like a sag in the line and TP and waste had apparently been collecting in there, and he'd used the camera to clear all that out, so it shouldnt clog for awhile, again.

Meanwhile, he suggested having a plumber come out and seeing if they could level that line, so that it wouldn't do this again. "YAY!", I said!

BUT I asked for an estimate first, being we had no idea what that might entail or cost. So the plumber came out today and went in the crawl space for a look. He came out and said that he didn't detect any "sag", so he recommended a $90 bottle of their "enzymes and bacteria" solution, which "should last a couple of years, because you only use about 3 ounces at a time".

That disappointed me, because we had our hopes up, that something could FINALLY be done, to end this decade-old TORTURE, and that it might not cost thousands.

So I'm sure many of you have seen camera work before. What do you make of this? Can you actually see any apparent "sag" in this video?

We still have no idea on where to go with this, and I'm just hoping that this camera job doesn't turn out as useless as the previous two, we tried years ago.

But I'm also wondering if we should spring for another $150 and get the camera out here again, and have them work it with a dry system, instead of that water flowing, and have them run the video from the time of entry, to the FAR end of the house, then back and out the clean out again. And go REALLY SLOWLY in and out this time, so we can see more?

By the way, I recall one other time when a "dip" ( what he called a "sag" was mentioned too.

Thoughts?

 

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Cacher_Chick

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They were moving so quickly it was hard to do much of an inspection. If there is anywhere in a drain line that holds water or causes it to flow the wrong way, that would be a "sag" in a line. The problem with a lot of prefab homes is that the plumbing is all packed up in the insulation, so unless the plumber could actually see every part of the main line and every junction tying into it, he could of easily missed something important.

I have met people who resolved their drainage problem by throwing all the TP in the garbage instead of in the toilet. For them it was more cost effective than fixing whatever problem their system had. Bidet seats work too.
 

Smooky

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It looks like there are two dips in the pipe. One at 40-52 and the other at 34-20. I don’t think enzymes and bacteria will fix that problem. If the pipe is accessible in the crawl space that should be fixable.
 

Melissa2007B

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They were moving so quickly it was hard to do much of an inspection. If there is anywhere in a drain line that holds water or causes it to flow the wrong way, that would be a "sag" in a line. The problem with a lot of prefab homes is that the plumbing is all packed up in the insulation, so unless the plumber could actually see every part of the main line and every junction tying into it, he could of easily missed something important.

That's what I'm wondering. I thought there was plastic sheeting under the house. How could he see the plumbing yesterday?

I have met people who resolved their drainage problem by throwing all the TP in the garbage instead of in the toilet.
<GAG> OH that is SO GROSS! :-}

No, we need a fix.
 

Melissa2007B

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It looks like there are two dips in the pipe. One at 40-52 and the other at 34-20. I don’t think enzymes and bacteria will fix that problem. If the pipe is accessible in the crawl space that should be fixable.

So then the question becomes, what did the guy actually do yesterday? If there's plastic sheeting covering the plumbing, he couldn't even inspect it, so why did he tell me it was straight, and then try to sell me the enzyme/bacteria bottle? Quick easy money?

I'm pretty fed up with the plastic sheeting under there. They left it on the house when they put it on the foundation and it's caused problems like this, where people cant see anything under there. But people have said to leave it on, as a "vapor barrier". WHY? Other houses on foundations, with 4' crawl spaces, don't need vapor barriers, do they?
 

Cacher_Chick

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There should be a vapor barrier between the ground and the structure. I could not say how important this is where you live, but it is required here. If the crawl is poured concrete, it is under the concrete.
 

Melissa2007B

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There should be a vapor barrier between the ground and the structure. I could not say how important this is where you live, but it is required here. If the crawl is poured concrete, it is under the concrete.

There's plastic sheeting on the ground at the bottom of the 4' crawl space, already.

Does anyone know of a good modular home forum?
 

Cacher_Chick

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I wouldn't worry to much about the fact that the house is modular. When the drainage piping is properly installed, you will not have all these problems.
You just haven't found the person who will do the work that needs to be done.
 

Cwhyu2

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If you can take pictures of the crawlspace and plumbing that might help us help you.
I take it that this is a one story house and most of the plumbing is horizontal in the crawlspace.
The crawlspace should be easy enough to accsess and 4` is pretty roomy compaired to some that I have been in.
 

Reach4

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Melissa2007B

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I wouldn't worry to much about the fact that the house is modular. When the drainage piping is properly installed, you will not have all these problems.
You just haven't found the person who will do the work that needs to be done.

They are different. For example, if plastic sheeting is covering the plumbing, that guy who came out for the estimate would not have been able to see the sagging pipes, and copped out on me.
 

Melissa2007B

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If you can take pictures of the crawlspace and plumbing that might help us help you.
I take it that this is a one story house and most of the plumbing is horizontal in the crawlspace.
The crawlspace should be easy enough to accsess and 4` is pretty roomy compaired to some that I have been in.

I'm 68 and would probably need to pick up some knee pads to do that. Will see...
 

Reach4

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would probably need to pick up some knee pads to do that.
Depending how dusty it is down there, you might want to pick up some coveralls. You can take those off outside. It would be best to have a helper outside.
 

Cacher_Chick

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They are different. For example, if plastic sheeting is covering the plumbing, that guy who came out for the estimate would not have been able to see the sagging pipes, and copped out on me.

If all it were was some plastic sheeting, it would not be hard to cut some slices in it to see the plumbing. If it is insulation above the plastic sheeting, then a good amount of work is in order to do the job right.
 
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