Options for slop sink in commerical kitchen

[Mark Olenick]

Hello all,
Thanks for the help (in advance). New DIY'r in this area looking for options if possible for a slop or floor type sink to be located in a commercial kitchen area. Located in NW PA borough that follows UPC 2009 code.

OK the problem is that the location for the cleaning / slop sink does not easily or readily lend its self to a vertical vent after the trap. To move its location would require a bunch of redesign. It is located under the steps that go to the second floor of the building. The primary issue is that in order t get to a vent we would need to run it horizontal for 10+ feet under the floor following the waste pipe which is not allowed by UPC (to my understanding).

Doing some research I came across UPC 902.2 but that seems only to apply to counter or bar sinks. Could this be used for basis of variance if slop sink direct drained to floor sink?

Hope this makes sense. Any options and guidance appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Smooky]

What about an air admittance valve (AAV)?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mark Olenick]

While the AAV would most likely work I don't believe it is acceptable from a UPC standpoint especially since it's a commercial kitchen area. I guess I could go to the inspector / zoning official and ask if it is acceptable but he typically puts it back on the architect which ends up costing several hundred for research. And if what I read regarding UPC 902.2 is only option then I'm back to the variance option which runs another several hundred. In the end I'm hoping maybe someone has been down this road before.

Thanks for the help

 

[hj]

902.2 only applies if the trap from your sink is emptying into another trapped drain, such as a floor sink, by means of an air gap, none of which seems to apply to your situation. Just show the AAV on the drawing you submit to the city for your permit. Either it is acceptable and they approve it, or it is not and you look for plan B.

 

[Mark Olenick]

Hi HJ - Thanks for help. I think I may n0t have explained the sink setup correctly. I could install a slop sink with trap that air gaps to a floor sink in this location if I understand what you are describing. I think I found a picture of what we would like to do.

Would this type of mop sink setup still require a vent or is it considered an air gap type sink? Trap would still be in place under the sink. As you suggest I'll also look into the AAV. As I'm sure there are many is there a specific type I want to look for? Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Mark

 

[Terry]

If you have a trap, it needs some sort of vent to prevent siphoning. If you drain that sink to a different sink, then that sink would need a vented p-trap. Somewhere, somehow, there will be a vent. I'm with hj. Talk to your inspector and see what he allows. I always meet with the local guy and ask those questions "before" I start.

 

[Smooky]

Here is a link showing a sink with an indirect drain or a drain with an air gap into a floor sink:
http://www.drain-tech.com/drains/ba...t-dome-strainers/domed-floor-sink-basket-9-5/
The mop wash sink in your picture does not have an indirect drain. Normally mop sinks do not require an indirect drain. It may be required for food prep sinks and utensil washing sinks.

There are many types of AAV but the Studor brand seem to hold up better.

 

[Mark Olenick]

Thank all. Will be discussing with BO tomorrow. Will let you know what he comes back with.

 

[hj]

quote; I could install a slop sink with trap that air gaps to a floor sink

The only way to do that would be if the slop sink was at least 6", or possibly more", above the floor. The pipe would have to turn horizontal BENEATH the MSB, the turn down again at the floor sink, AND terminate at least 1" above the rim of the floor sink. But if you COULD do that then the sink might not need a trap and would NOT need a vent.

 

[Mark Olenick]

HJ- Understood, looking at the space I believe I could get that option work. But in this case wouldn't the floor sink still require a trap ,(gases , vermin, etc)AND vent. OR is the floor sink a special case that allows for longer trap arm.

 

[FullySprinklered]

I can't speak with authority about commercial kitchens, especially outside my area, but I've done a couple. The food prep area drains are separated from the bathroom drains by a 4" running trap. That keeps the wooly-buggers out of the kitchen. It's called a safe waste system. Should be a be vent on either side of the trap. You're running ice machine melt water and overflow, and drink machine overflow down into hubs in the floor with an air gap. If you see two circles close together in the kitchen floor with clean-out plugs in them, that's the trap.

 

[hj]

quote; But in this case wouldn't the floor sink still require a trap ,(gases , vermin, etc)AND vent.


Whatever they were would ONLY be between the sink and the floor sink, and if they did not come into the MSB they would come out the other end, AND, ANY odors would be originating in the floor sink NOT the drain system, because it would NOT be connected to the drain system.

 

[hj]

quote; The food prep area drains are separated from the bathroom drains by a 4" running trap. That keeps the wooly-buggers out of the kitchen. It's called a safe waste system. Should be a be vent on either side of the trap.


The NEXT system I install like that, and I have done MANY "commercial kitchens", will be my first one, and I have never heard of ANYONE doing them that way.

 

[Smooky]

They are not separated here in NC either, other than the kitchen waste goes to through a grease trap before it goes to the sewer or septic system. The only exception to that is in walk in refrigerators or walk in freezers; if there are drains in there they must connect by an air gap on the outside of the unit. This way there is no way for sewage to back up into the refrigerated space.

 

[Mark Olenick]

HJ in that case is the MSB draining into "floor drain" via air gap so that floor drain is trapped but does not require vent?

 

[hj]

The floor drain does but the MSB does not because all the trap would do would be to minimize air flow between the MSB and the area around the floor sink.

 

[FullySprinklered]

quote; The food prep area drains are separated from the bathroom drains by a 4" running trap. That keeps the wooly-buggers out of the kitchen. It's called a safe waste system. Should be a be vent on either side of the trap.


The NEXT system I install like that, and I have done MANY "commercial kitchens", will be my first one, and I have never heard of ANYONE doing them that way.

The NEXT system you install in my neck of the woods WILL incorporate a safewaste system, or you WILL NOT get paid. Grumpy old goat.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Hello all,
Thanks for the help (in advance). New DIY'r in this area looking for options if possible for a slop or floor type sink to be located in a commercial kitchen area. Located in NW PA borough that follows UPC 2009 code.

Before you go ahead with this be sure to check with your local health inspection dept. for this commercial kitchen. Placing such as a slop sink may not be permitted if food preparation is in the same room. If it is allowed there may be a certain distance from which it can be located near food or storage shelves. You do not want a dirty water that was just used to clean the bathroom splashing near the food, dishes or any other appliance.

I work at my church that is only five years old. Our commercial kitchen has two drainage systems. The slop sink in a separate room off the kitchen, three floor drains, and one bathroom all drain into the septic system. There are three floor sinks that sit 2 inches above the finish floor and the five wash sinks and an ice machine drain into these floor sinks. The drain pipes from the wash sinks sit two inches above the top of the floor sinks. Therefore, sewage can never back up into a sink that may have washed pots in it or food to be washed. These floor sinks lead into a two 750 gallon grease traps that is outside underground then connected to the septic system.

 

[hj]

If I don't get paid, then I do NOT install the system. But, you would have to convince me that there is ANY PRACTICAL reason for doing so, which is not likely.

 

[Reach4]

If I don't get paid, then I do NOT install the system. But, you would have to convince me that there is ANY PRACTICAL reason for doing so, which is not likely.

It is code in Georgia. Is that practical enough?